ChNN's Yantra yoga: Transmission or no transmission?

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Re: Celibacy

Postby Dronma » Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:58 am

dzogchungpa wrote:I believe there is a scene in "My Reincarnation" where Yeshi Namkhai refers to Rinpoche as "the boss".

Khyentse Yeshi is Rinpoche's son!

Malcolm wrote:Yes, many of us refer to ChNN as "the boss" on a regular basis. He is our boss.

If it is a joke, it shows a lack of respect. If it is serious, then shows a lack of understanding. Since a Guru is never anybody's boss.
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Re: Celibacy

Postby dzogchungpa » Sat Sep 07, 2013 1:34 am

Dronma wrote:Khyentse Yeshi is Rinpoche's son!

Really? Now that movies makes a lot more sense.
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Re: ChNN's Yantra yoga: Transmission or no transmission?

Postby Stewart » Sat Sep 07, 2013 1:53 am

Lighten up Dronma....it is a term meant with respect and also affection.

When I lived at Samye Ling, here in Scotland, many of us referred to Akong Rinpoche as 'the boss' or affectionately as 'The Big R' obviously we didn't address him directly as this...but he knew we did and thought it was funny, he still does....he is the boss, it's his gig....he's the centre of the mandala, all the activity revolves around him. It's meant with humour and respect.

Plus I doubt Bruce Springsteen minds :smile:
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Re: Celibacy

Postby Malcolm » Sat Sep 07, 2013 1:57 am

Relax
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
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there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

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Re: Celibacy

Postby tomamundsen » Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:15 am

Dronma wrote:
Malcolm wrote:Yes, many of us refer to ChNN as "the boss" on a regular basis. He is our boss.

If it is a joke, it shows a lack of respect. If it is serious, then shows a lack of understanding. Since a Guru is never anybody's boss.

I think this is a cultural thing. Using "boss" in this way is a term of endearment and respect in the US, and I imagine other Western countries.
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Re: ChNN's Yantra yoga: Transmission or no transmission?

Postby Norwegian » Sat Sep 07, 2013 11:53 am

I really fail to see the problem here.

For example, you have "Khordong Terchen Tulku Chhimed Rigdzin Rinpoche", yet was referred to as just "C.R. Lama" by his students. He even signed letters and similar himself by writing "C.R. Lama" on them. In Tibet, in the mid-80's, Tibetans called him "Rainbow Lama" because wherever he went, rainbows would appear in the sky.

And so for Chogyal Namkhai Norbu, we tend to use the shortform "ChNN" when writing, or "Rinpoche". Many older students are used to saying "Namkhai Norbu". And what's funny, is that the "Namkhai" is mispronounced by basically everybody, and have been for decades, to the point where ChNN himself says "Namkhai" the way his students say it, even if he knows how to pronounce it (naturally enough).

So maybe Dronma would call this lack of respect and lack of understanding, but she should also understand the intention behind various actions. To refer to ChNN as "The Boss" - which many of his students have done for a long time - has nothing to do with it being derogatory, negative, disrespectful, or lackadaisical, in any way.

It is, as tomamundsen said, a term of endearment, and respect.
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Re: Celibacy

Postby Sönam » Sat Sep 07, 2013 4:19 pm

Dronma wrote:
Malcolm wrote:Yes, many of us refer to ChNN as "the boss" on a regular basis. He is our boss.

If it is a joke, it shows a lack of respect. If it is serious, then shows a lack of understanding. Since a Guru is never anybody's boss.


Rinpoche or The Boss, for ChNN it is adapted ... do you bow down in front of him ?
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Re: ChNN's Yantra yoga: Transmission or no transmission?

Postby dzogchungpa » Sat Sep 07, 2013 4:29 pm

Norwegian wrote:And what's funny, is that the "Namkhai" is mispronounced by basically everybody...

How is it supposed to be pronounced?
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Re: Celibacy

Postby Dronma » Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:21 pm

tomamundsen wrote:I think this is a cultural thing. Using "boss" in this way is a term of endearment and respect in the US, and I imagine other Western countries.


1) Here it is not everybody from USA. Different cultures, different habits. It reminds me when in the past some of you had created in DW the thread "Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche Fanboys" and the thread was starting with the declaration: "The Crystal and the Way of Light is profound as balls". Maybe for some Americans from US it sounds funny, for others it sounds disrespectful.

2) There is a big difference in between the oral speech and the written speech. Expressions which we can say easily when we talk, they do not sound the same when we write them down. Mostly, because the written speech stays longer time and it can be read by different people who keep different ideas. Especially when it is published on the web.

3) Finally, why don't you ask Rinpoche if he likes his students to call him "boss" publicly?
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Re: Celibacy

Postby Dronma » Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:27 pm

Sönam wrote:Rinpoche or The Boss, for ChNN it is adapted ... do you bow down in front of him ?


Sönam, if I had to see my Guru as my boss, believe me, I'd run away and never look back again!!! ;)
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Re: Celibacy

Postby Simon E. » Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:36 pm

Dronma wrote:
tomamundsen wrote:I think this is a cultural thing. Using "boss" in this way is a term of endearment and respect in the US, and I imagine other Western countries.


1) Here it is not everybody from USA. Different cultures, different habits. It reminds me when in the past some of you had created in DW the thread "Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche Fanboys" and the thread was starting with the declaration: "The Crystal and the Way of Light is profound as balls". Maybe for some Americans from US it sounds funny, for others it sounds disrespectful.

2) There is a big difference in between the oral speech and the written speech. Expressions which we can say easily when we talk, they do not sound the same when we write them down. Mostly, because the written speech stays longer time and it can be read by different people who keep different ideas. Especially when it is published on the web.
3) Finally, why don't you ask Rinpoche if he likes his students to call him "boss" publicly?




The problem Dronma is entirely to do with the fact that you are unfamiliar with all the nuances of current English, which in itself is not surprising.
But this is an English language forum.
The problem in brief, is yours.
Last edited by Simon E. on Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Celibacy

Postby Dronma » Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:40 pm

Simon E. wrote:Your problem is entirely to with the fact that you are unfamiliar with all the nuances of current
English Dronma.Which is hardly suprising. But this is an English language forum.
The problem, if there is one, is yours.


This forum is an international forum, dear.
And you have to learn how to respect everybody!
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Re: ChNN's Yantra yoga: Transmission or no transmission?

Postby Simon E. » Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:41 pm

No one is disrespecting anyone. That is the point. Dear.
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Re: Celibacy

Postby Sönam » Sat Sep 07, 2013 6:35 pm

Dronma wrote:
Sönam wrote:Rinpoche or The Boss, for ChNN it is adapted ... do you bow down in front of him ?


Sönam, if I had to see my Guru as my boss, believe me, I'd run away and never look back again!!! ;)


maybe because you take boss only in one sense ... the boss also is the one, one respect for he is the one ... the boss. But that's ok, we don't need to go further on that point.

Sönam
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Re: Celibacy

Postby treehuggingoctopus » Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:36 am

Dronma wrote:
Simon E. wrote:Your problem is entirely to with the fact that you are unfamiliar with all the nuances of current
English Dronma.Which is hardly suprising. But this is an English language forum.
The problem, if there is one, is yours.


This forum is an international forum, dear.
And you have to learn how to respect everybody!


The point is, in the Anglophone world calling Rinpoche 'the Boss' is not disrespectful by any means -- quite the contrary. And DW is very much a part of that world since we all of us happen to use English here.

(Incidentally, I've often heard long-standing students of Rinpoche directly translate the English 'Boss' into their native tongues. Again, as a sign of deep, and entirely unpretentious, affection and respect.)

Btw, are you aware that your 'dear' sounds rather horribly condescending?
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Re: ChNN's Yantra yoga: Transmission or no transmission?

Postby treehuggingoctopus » Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:48 am

dzogchungpa wrote:
Norwegian wrote:And what's funny, is that the "Namkhai" is mispronounced by basically everybody...

How is it supposed to be pronounced?


I'm not sure if that's what Norwegian really meant, but insofar as I know the nasal sound is velar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velar_nasal, the nasal in HUM as it is generally pronounced by Tibetans) and not labial.
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Re: Celibacy

Postby Dronma » Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:32 am

treehuggingoctopus wrote:Incidentally, I've often heard long-standing students of Rinpoche directly translate the English 'Boss' into their native tongues.


Of course, everyone is free to call Rinpoche "boss", "chief", "captain", "lieutenant", or whatever it comes in his mind!
Am I also free to express my objections now?
Like about that image of the cheesy superman with the Tibetan A in the chest and the green underpants?
Some people like it. If you ask me, it is ridiculously kitsch.
Different people, different tastes.... :mrgreen:
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Re: ChNN's Yantra yoga: Transmission or no transmission?

Postby Qing Tian » Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:02 am

De gustibus non est disputandum.
“Not till your thoughts cease all their branching here and there, not till you abandon all thoughts of seeking for something, not till your mind is motionless as wood or stone, will you be on the right road to the Gate.”
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Re: Celibacy

Postby Sönam » Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:33 pm

Dronma wrote:
treehuggingoctopus wrote:Incidentally, I've often heard long-standing students of Rinpoche directly translate the English 'Boss' into their native tongues.


Of course, everyone is free to call Rinpoche "boss", "chief", "captain", "lieutenant", or whatever it comes in his mind!
Am I also free to express my objections now?
Like about that image of the cheesy superman with the Tibetan A in the chest and the green underpants?
Some people like it. If you ask me, it is ridiculously kitsch.
Different people, different tastes.... :mrgreen:


One has also to considere limitations ...

S
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By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
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Re: ChNN's Yantra yoga: Transmission or no transmission?

Postby Dronma » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:01 pm

IMPORTANT NOTE (to whoever might be interested):

1) Not all students of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche consider him as their boss.

2) Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche never encourages his students to develop attachment and public praise towards his face. Neither he encourages arrogant cult attitude in Dzogchen Community.
"My view is as vast as the sky, but my actions are finer than flour"
~ Padmasambhava ~
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