Rigpa vs. Nature of Mind

mutsuk
Posts: 571
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:35 pm

Re: Jes Bertelsen?

Postby mutsuk » Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:27 pm


User avatar
dzogchungpa
Posts: 5393
Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 10:50 pm

Re: Rigpa vs. Nature of Mind

Postby dzogchungpa » Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:36 pm

Well, is Duff's translation as 'mindness' just totally off in a Dzogchen context then? As a native English speaker, 'mindness' and 'mind itself' do not seem to be synonymous to me.
Through Dzogchen we can really understand what God is and we don’t have to worry if there is a God or not. God always exists as our real nature, the base, for everybody. - Chögyal Namkhai Norbu

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 24173
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Jes Bertelsen?

Postby Malcolm » Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:45 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

mutsuk
Posts: 571
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:35 pm

Re: Jes Bertelsen?

Postby mutsuk » Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:01 pm


User avatar
anjali
Global Moderator
Posts: 1067
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:33 pm

Re: Rigpa vs. Nature of Mind

Postby anjali » Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:14 pm

All things are unworthy of clinging to (sabbe dhammā nâla abhinivesāyā). --Shakyamuni Buddha
Wanting to grasp the ungraspable, you exhaust yourself in vain. --Gendun Rinpoche

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 24173
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Jes Bertelsen?

Postby Malcolm » Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:33 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 24173
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Rigpa vs. Nature of Mind

Postby Malcolm » Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:37 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

Dronma
Posts: 717
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:29 pm

Re: Rigpa vs. Nature of Mind

Postby Dronma » Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:12 am

"My view is as vast as the sky, but my actions are finer than flour"
~ Padmasambhava ~

mutsuk
Posts: 571
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:35 pm

Re: Jes Bertelsen?

Postby mutsuk » Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:10 am


BodhiYogaDharma
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:09 am

Re: Jes Bertelsen?

Postby BodhiYogaDharma » Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:14 am


Stewart
Posts: 527
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:40 pm

Re: Rigpa vs. Nature of Mind

Postby Stewart » Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:22 am

s.

Dronma
Posts: 717
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:29 pm

Re: Jes Bertelsen?

Postby Dronma » Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:39 pm

"My view is as vast as the sky, but my actions are finer than flour"
~ Padmasambhava ~

User avatar
davyji
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2010 2:30 pm
Location: Intermountain West USA

Re: Rigpa vs. Nature of Mind

Postby davyji » Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:46 pm

I agree that the distinguishing mind,nature of mind & awareness are of utmost importance in Mahamudra & Dzogchen. It is important in Kaygu Mahamudra, Bon Dzogchen & Atiyoga/Dzogchen.

ChNN makes the distinction often and feel no need to repeat the citations nor the many times i've heard him make these distinctions which are the core of the teachings.

GTWR in the Wonders of the Natural Mindlists the 4 qualities of the nature of mind (sems nyid) as
1) abscence of thoughts
2)being in the basis of the moving mind
3)being neutral, without bias of beieng virtous or nonvirtuous
4)having unlimited potentiality for manifestation

And the 4 qualities of mind (sems) as
1)seeing & memory
2)when the mind thinks any thought can manifest
3)when one does not think and observes the moving mind, it liberates into kunzhi/ie the basis of emptiness
4)that if one allows one's mind to abide in the unchanging natural state, the mother and the son join inseparably

In Creation and Completion by Jamgon Kongrul, Khechen Thrangu Rinpoches commentary states
...in certain dzogchen practices..one takes awareness as the path rather than the mind...discussing the completion stage there are two aspects...one is to discover or generate stability in the mind and second is to generate clarity in the mind...in the Kaygu tradition we use 2 situations of mind,abiding (the mind that rests) and moving (presence of thought within the mind).. to come to decisive recognition of the mind's nature....this basic format of presentation of the mind's nature is called "abiding,moving and awareness"... the term mind is used to refer to what we would normally call thought or deluded mind...awareness is used to refer to the innate non conceptual cognitive lucidity of the mind.
The point made in this tradition is that it is of great importance in meditation to properly distinquish between these two in you meditation experience.

Whether taking mind as the path as with Mahamudra or taking awareness as the path with certain dzogchen approaches, dinstinction between sems,sems nyid is of critical importance, in all 3 approaches. Albiet Mahamudra awareness is not identical to Dzogchen rigpa, recognizing one's mind and it's nature is important.

love light space
dave

edited to make a distinction between completion practices and dzogchen.
Working with the raw elements (air earth fire water space)is a process of connecting with the external elements and internalizing their qualities.
Ultimately we can merge with the element. We connect the external quality with the internal quality and then dissolve the distinctions.
Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche

The essence of the elements is light
ChNN

User avatar
davyji
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2010 2:30 pm
Location: Intermountain West USA

Re: Rigpa vs. Nature of Mind

Postby davyji » Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:05 pm

I changed my mind and feel the need to clarify what is meant by rigpa according to ChNN; The Crystal and the Way of Light,pages 113-114

" In Dzogchen contemplation, free from the defects of sleepiness,agitation and distraction, both the moments of calm that occur between one thought and another, and the movements of thoughts themselves are integrated in the non-dual presence of Enlightened awareness...rigpa...But if one does not find oneself dwelling in the state of rigpa it is only by observing one's condition at all times (distinguishing mind/nature of mind) that one can know just which practices to work with an any given moment in order to get out of one's cage and to stay out of it."

OmAhHum
dave
Working with the raw elements (air earth fire water space)is a process of connecting with the external elements and internalizing their qualities.
Ultimately we can merge with the element. We connect the external quality with the internal quality and then dissolve the distinctions.
Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche

The essence of the elements is light
ChNN

User avatar
smcj
Posts: 5265
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:13 am

Re: Rigpa vs. Nature of Mind

Postby smcj » Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:50 pm

Don't take me too seriously.

WeiHan
Posts: 324
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:50 pm

Re: Rigpa vs. Nature of Mind

Postby WeiHan » Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:54 am

Anybody to praise the following interpretation?

The nature of mind has both the potential to be unenlightened and enlightened. Enlightened mind is Rigpa, Unenligtened mind is ma-rigpa.

In other words, Rigpa is different from nature of mind. It is the nature of mind (which has both potential, this has to be stressed) which manifest enlightenment (knowing its own nature).

User avatar
Grigoris
Former staff member
Posts: 14670
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Rigpa vs. Nature of Mind

Postby Grigoris » Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:33 am

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
Karma Dorje
Posts: 1236
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 10:35 pm

Re: Rigpa vs. Nature of Mind

Postby Karma Dorje » Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:39 am

"Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour."
-Padmasambhava

krodha
Posts: 2125
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:30 pm

Re: Rigpa vs. Nature of Mind

Postby krodha » Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:46 am


User avatar
smcj
Posts: 5265
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:13 am

Re: Rigpa vs. Nature of Mind

Postby smcj » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:18 am

Don't take me too seriously.


Return to “Dzogchen”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests