Jigme Lingpa's mystical pranayama experience

ConradTree
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Jigme Lingpa's mystical pranayama experience

Postby ConradTree » Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:57 pm

http://en.calameo.com/read/00003925751dd248ce111
pg. 468

"The ascending and descending pranas united, and a large, round vessel like a gourd was actually visible to the eye. This was the source from which my ordinary and extraordinary signs of the path were actualized." ---Jigme Lingpa

ConradTree
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Re: Jigme Lingpa's mystical pranayama experience

Postby ConradTree » Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:04 pm

What does Jigme Lingpa mean?

krodha
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Re: Jigme Lingpa's mystical pranayama experience

Postby krodha » Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:39 am

ConradTree wrote:What does Jigme Lingpa mean?

jigs med is "fearless" I believe. gling pa is an honorary title given to tertöns, but "gling" [skt. dvīpa] translates to something like "island", or continent; island; location [as of a monastery] according to Jeffery Hopkins Sanskrit-Tibetan-English dictionary.

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Re: Jigme Lingpa's mystical pranayama experience

Postby ConradTree » Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:00 am

I meant what the quote means.

krodha
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Re: Jigme Lingpa's mystical pranayama experience

Postby krodha » Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:14 am

ConradTree wrote:I meant what the quote means.

Ah haha

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kirtu
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Re: Jigme Lingpa's mystical pranayama experience

Postby kirtu » Sun Apr 20, 2014 12:32 pm

ConradTree wrote:What does Jigme Lingpa mean?


The ascending and descending pranas united, and a large, round vessel like a gourd was actually visible to the eye. This was the source from which my ordinary and extraordinary signs of the path were actualized." ---Jigme Lingpa


As it says, the winds were united and as a result he saw a sign, visually visible to him at the time. It was from this experience that his later attainments were actualized.

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

ConradTree
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Re: Jigme Lingpa's mystical pranayama experience

Postby ConradTree » Sun Apr 20, 2014 2:26 pm

Yes, but what does that mean?

Is this gourd thing a well known visible sign in pranayama?

And how is it the basis for all his attainments?

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Malcolm
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Re: Jigme Lingpa's mystical pranayama experience

Postby Malcolm » Sun Apr 20, 2014 2:31 pm

ConradTree wrote:Yes, but what does that mean?

Is this gourd thing a well known visible sign in pranayama?

And how is it the basis for all his attainments?


Yes.

Control of prāṇa is the basis of all attainments.
http://www.atikosha.org
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


So called “sentient beings” are merely delusions self-appearing from the dhātu of luminosity.

-- Ju Mipham

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Re: Jigme Lingpa's mystical pranayama experience

Postby ConradTree » Sun Apr 20, 2014 2:32 pm

Malcolm wrote:Yes.


Anything in English that explains the gourd?

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Malcolm
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Re: Jigme Lingpa's mystical pranayama experience

Postby Malcolm » Sun Apr 20, 2014 2:40 pm

ConradTree wrote:
Malcolm wrote:Yes.


Anything in English that explains the gourd?


You can examine Lamdre.
http://www.atikosha.org
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


So called “sentient beings” are merely delusions self-appearing from the dhātu of luminosity.

-- Ju Mipham

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Re: Jigme Lingpa's mystical pranayama experience

Postby ConradTree » Sun Apr 20, 2014 2:42 pm

You must be referring to this:

http://www.amazon.com/Taking-Result-Pat ... 0861714431

But there is no mention of gourd in it. You can search for words through Amazon if you click on the cover.

This gourd thing must be known under different names.
Last edited by ConradTree on Sun Apr 20, 2014 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Malcolm
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Re: Jigme Lingpa's mystical pranayama experience

Postby Malcolm » Sun Apr 20, 2014 2:47 pm

ConradTree wrote:You must be referring to this:

http://www.amazon.com/Taking-Result-Pat ... 0861714431

But there is no mention of gourd in it. You can search for words through Amazon.



After one is able to see the color of the vāyu through doing various kinds of practice, when one unifies the prāṇā and apāṇa vayus, it forms the shape of a ball or a gourd. Yogis can see this with their eyes. You and I cannot.

First however you have to get the level of being able to see your prāṇa. Lamdre explains this process very well, but also the treatise on vāyu in the Vima Nyinthig and so on.
http://www.atikosha.org
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


So called “sentient beings” are merely delusions self-appearing from the dhātu of luminosity.

-- Ju Mipham

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Jigme Lingpa's mystical pranayama experience

Postby dzogchungpa » Sun Apr 20, 2014 5:35 pm

Malcolm wrote:After one is able to see the color of the vāyu through doing various kinds of practice...

Is it green?
The truly undisturbed mind is not a private experience; it is more "public". - Dza Kilung Rinpoche

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Malcolm
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Re: Jigme Lingpa's mystical pranayama experience

Postby Malcolm » Sun Apr 20, 2014 5:41 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:
Malcolm wrote:After one is able to see the color of the vāyu through doing various kinds of practice...

Is it green?



There are in general five elemental vāyus, so they have different colors.
http://www.atikosha.org
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


So called “sentient beings” are merely delusions self-appearing from the dhātu of luminosity.

-- Ju Mipham

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Jigme Lingpa's mystical pranayama experience

Postby dzogchungpa » Sun Apr 20, 2014 5:49 pm

Malcolm wrote:
dzogchungpa wrote:
Malcolm wrote:After one is able to see the color of the vāyu through doing various kinds of practice...

Is it green?

There are in general five elemental vāyus, so they have different colors.

OK, I assume those are the standard colors. Is the white one actually white?
The truly undisturbed mind is not a private experience; it is more "public". - Dza Kilung Rinpoche

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Malcolm
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Re: Jigme Lingpa's mystical pranayama experience

Postby Malcolm » Sun Apr 20, 2014 5:51 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:OK, I assume those are the standard colors. Is the white one actually white?


The best think you can do is practice prāṇāyama yourself and discover this experientially. I can tell you what the texts say, but I have no personal experience with this.

M
http://www.atikosha.org
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


So called “sentient beings” are merely delusions self-appearing from the dhātu of luminosity.

-- Ju Mipham

Pero
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Re: Jigme Lingpa's mystical pranayama experience

Postby Pero » Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:41 pm

Malcolm wrote:
ConradTree wrote:You must be referring to this:

http://www.amazon.com/Taking-Result-Pat ... 0861714431

But there is no mention of gourd in it. You can search for words through Amazon.



After one is able to see the color of the vāyu through doing various kinds of practice, when one unifies the prāṇā and apāṇa vayus, it forms the shape of a ball or a gourd. Yogis can see this with their eyes. You and I cannot.

Not saying the above is not true also, but the notes say that this is how his abdomened looked like after much practice, a physical sign.

The best think you can do is practice prāṇāyama yourself and discover this experientially. I can tell you what the texts say, but I have no personal experience with this.

Except it seems texts often don't completely agree with one another in such matters. This has made me wonder if one only sees what one is supposed to see according to the system one practices.
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar

ConradTree
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Re: Jigme Lingpa's mystical pranayama experience

Postby ConradTree » Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:25 pm

Malcolm wrote:I can tell you what the texts say


Go on...

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Re: Jigme Lingpa's mystical pranayama experience

Postby ConradTree » Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:29 pm

Pero wrote:Not saying the above is not true also, but the notes say that this is how his abdomened looked like after much practice, a physical sign.


If you have the book, quote the footnote please.

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Re: Jigme Lingpa's mystical pranayama experience

Postby Arnoud » Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:42 pm

Malcolm wrote:
dzogchungpa wrote:OK, I assume those are the standard colors. Is the white one actually white?


The best think you can do is practice prāṇāyama yourself and discover this experientially. I can tell you what the texts say, but I have no personal experience with this.

M


So, even after a three year Lamdre retreat one should not expect such experiences? It seems that, even when doing retreats, the path is not so fast and easy. Guess Dzogchen is the way to go. Though I don't think that is easy either.


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