Now I "get it"

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Now I "get it"

Postby RikudouSennin » Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:38 am

Speaking relatively for years I was seeking, but what I was seeking for was not something to be found outside of this experience.

Intellectual study is beyond my comprehension, thus caused confusion, but with this direct experience, everything that confused me is understood.

Such peace, laughter, hahaha :rolling:

now to stabilize it and continue with it

the simplicity is the hard part...
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Re: Now I "get it"

Postby lobster » Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:45 am

Sounds good to me.

Simplicity and stability. That should keep you occupied for quite a while . . . :hi:
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Re: Now I "get it"

Postby Gwenn Dana » Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:49 am

The little buggers have a tendency to come back :lol: :thumbsup:
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Re: Now I "get it"

Postby Andrew108 » Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:16 pm

RikudouSennin wrote:Speaking relatively for years I was seeking, but what I was seeking for was not something to be found outside of this experience.

Intellectual study is beyond my comprehension, thus caused confusion, but with this direct experience, everything that confused me is understood.

Such peace, laughter, hahaha :rolling:

now to stabilize it and continue with it

the simplicity is the hard part...


I remember when you wanted to be a wandering yogi.
The Blessed One said:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.
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Re: Now I "get it"

Postby thigle » Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:34 pm

RikudouSennin wrote:but what I was seeking for was not something to be found outside of this experience.


So you've "found" some-thing inside of this experience?
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Re: Now I "get it"

Postby thigle » Sat Apr 26, 2014 1:25 pm

lobster wrote:Simplicity and stability. That should keep one occupied for quite a while . . .


Because primordial natural losseness is completely unfabricated. So stability can't be practiced. Therefore one have to make a strong decision and the fruit is relative stability. This can take years and decades. If knowledge is relative stable, potentiality begins to unfold. That's the beginning of thögal. True stability without thögal is not possible, because solid vision isn't the exact expression of knowledge. The thin ignorance-layer of solid vision always creates confusion.
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Re: Now I "get it"

Postby asunthatneversets » Sat Apr 26, 2014 5:13 pm

thigle wrote:So you've "found" some-thing inside of this experience?

That is how it works, your nature is not discovered elsewhere.
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Re: Now I "get it"

Postby asunthatneversets » Sat Apr 26, 2014 5:19 pm

thigle wrote:Because primordial natural losseness is completely unfabricated. So stability can't be practiced.

In the beginning stability must be practiced, and practiced diligently. It is said that initially the practitioner chases the meditation and later once stability has occurred, the meditation chases the practitioner. Without achieving that stability though, there is no hope of becoming stable. Your nature is always stable, you however are not. So it is a matter of familiarization and continually returning to that knowledge. Effortlessness comes in time.
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Re: Now I "get it"

Postby thigle » Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:48 am

asunthatneversets wrote:
thigle wrote:So you've "found" some-thing inside of this experience?

That is how it works, your nature is not discovered elsewhere.


I did not ask you.

asunthatneversets wrote:In the beginning stability must be practiced


..because of grasping. But primordial natural losseness is completely unfabricated. So stability can't be practiced. This is clear, even if knowledge seems to be hidden again. Therefore one have to make a strong decision and the fruit is relative stability. This can take years and decades. If knowledge is relative stable, potentiality begins to unfold. That's the beginning of thögal. True stability without thögal is not possible, because solid vision isn't the exact expression of knowledge. The thin ignorance-layer of solid vision always creates confusion.

STG wrote: Everything that is practiced in those paths is made up by thoughts, and their practitioners never achieve the stage of acting without action. [..] Decisions without action has three subdivisions. The first is in general to remove all faults; the second is to explain what the decision without action means; and third is to decide to practice without practising. [..]
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Re: Now I "get it"

Postby asunthatneversets » Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:30 pm

thigle wrote:I did not ask you.

I'm well aware of that.

thigle wrote:..because of grasping. But primordial natural losseness is completely unfabricated. So stability can't be practiced. This is clear, even if knowledge seems to be hidden again. Therefore one have to make a strong decision and the fruit is relative stability. This can take years and decades. If knowledge is relative stable, potentiality begins to unfold. That's the beginning of thögal. True stability without thögal is not possible, because solid vision isn't the exact expression of knowledge. The thin ignorance-layer of solid vision always creates confusion.

STG wrote: Everything that is practiced in those paths is made up by thoughts, and their practitioners never achieve the stage of acting without action. [..] Decisions without action has three subdivisions. The first is in general to remove all faults; the second is to explain what the decision without action means; and third is to decide to practice without practising. [..]

Stability must be practiced. The fact that primordial wisdom is unfabricated is irrelevant, the path consists of you working with your knowledge of primordial wisdom. Wisdom must be recognized and then familiarized with.
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Re: Now I "get it"

Postby RikudouSennin » Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:32 pm

thigle wrote:
RikudouSennin wrote:but what I was seeking for was not something to be found outside of this experience.


So you've "found" some-thing inside of this experience?


Who can say?
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Re: Now I "get it"

Postby thigle » Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:50 am

I can put ones mind at ease; this decision is really hard work for years or decades. During this time, a lot happened. So the first is in general to remove all faults; now based on ones authentic knowledge of primordial knowledge. This only can be decisions.

asunthatneversets wrote:Stability must be practiced. The fact that primordial wisdom is unfabricated is irrelevant, the path consists of you working with your knowledge of primordial wisdom. Wisdom must be recognized and then familiarized with.


Primordial natural losseness is completely unfabricated. So stability can't be practiced. Now this is clear, even if knowledge seems to be hidden again. Therefore one have to make a strong decision and the fruit is relative stability. This can take years and decades. If knowledge is relative stable, potentiality begins to unfold. That's the beginning of thögal. True stability without thögal is not possible, because solid vision isn't the exact expression of knowledge. The thin ignorance-layer of solid vision always creates confusion.

STG wrote: Everything that is practiced in those paths is made up by thoughts, and their practitioners never achieve the stage of acting without action. [..] Decisions without action has three subdivisions. The first is in general to remove all faults; the second is to explain what the decision without action means; and third is to decide to practice without practising. [..]
Last edited by thigle on Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Now I "get it"

Postby thigle » Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:01 am

RikudouSennin wrote:
thigle wrote:
RikudouSennin wrote:but what I was seeking for was not something to be found outside of this experience.


So you've "found" some-thing inside of this experience?


Who can say?


You, RikudouSennin? Or maybe your self is gone, in a reified-way, like in Advaita.
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Re: Now I "get it"

Postby lobster » Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:30 am

thigle wrote:Because primordial natural losseness is completely unfabricated. So stability can't be practiced. Therefore one have to make a strong decision and the fruit is relative stability. This can take years and decades. If knowledge is relative stable, potentiality begins to unfold.


:twothumbsup:

Quite right, it is the conditions for stability that one (not 'you' - right again) must enable. Any gain, arising, or 'getting it' will be temporary unless it is 'the ungraspable'/'unborn' etc.
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Re: Now I "get it"

Postby Simon E. » Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:36 am

From whom have you received Dzogchen instruction ' lobster.'..just out of interest ?
Or do you not consider that important when replying to a Dzogchen thread ?
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Re: Now I "get it"

Postby thigle » Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:19 am

lobster wrote:
thigle wrote:Because primordial natural losseness is completely unfabricated. So stability can't be practiced. Therefore one have to make a strong decision and the fruit is relative stability. This can take years and decades. If knowledge is relative stable, potentiality begins to unfold.


Quite right, it is the conditions for stability that one must enable.


So, if one can't understand the necessity of such decisions instead of practicing stability, one never has realized immediate knowledge before. This step isn't a personal fabrication, it is just the consequence what follows after temporary recognicing immediate knowledge. This decision is absolutely consistent with the ZZNG-tantras I know.
Last edited by thigle on Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Now I "get it"

Postby Malcolm » Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:31 am

thigle wrote:
lobster wrote:
thigle wrote:Because primordial natural losseness is completely unfabricated. So stability can't be practiced. Therefore one have to make a strong decision and the fruit is relative stability. This can take years and decades. If knowledge is relative stable, potentiality begins to unfold.


Quite right, it is the conditions for stability that one must enable.


So, if one can't understand the necessity of decisions instead of practicing stability, one never has realized immediate knowledge before. This step isn't a personal fabrication, it is just the consequence what follows after temporary recognicing immediate knowledge. This decision is absolutely consistent with the ZZNG-tantras I know.


You realize you are talking to an "arhat", right?
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Now I "get it"

Postby Simon E. » Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:44 am

A timely reminder Malcolm...He 'lobster' , is also a master of Shingon Buddhism and a Sufi master.

He also can intuitively tell the attainments of teachers... because he has siddhis. :o

Most teachers, he has stated, do not reach his standards.

We are lucky to have him condescending to teach us.

:twothumbsup:
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Re: Now I "get it"

Postby thigle » Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:08 pm

Malcolm wrote:You realize you are talking to an "arhat", right?


I'm talking about Dzogchen in an deluded Dzogchen'like forum, because nobody talks about Dzogchen, but everybody calls it Dzogchen and beliefes this is Dzogchen. This is dangerous and causes much confusion. Especially for the invisible readers now and in the future. So, it's better to close this public forum or this self-destructive obligation of secrecy falls, which has much worse effects for the teachings, than doing the teachings publicly. So I'm always talking first to the invisible reader. The last postings about "decisions" can't be misunderstood, only not understood.
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Re: Now I "get it"

Postby Simon E. » Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:27 pm

The point Malcolm is making thigle, is that 'lobster' has declared himself to be an arhat.
He has also claimed that via his siddhis he was able to access 'pointing out' instructions without a particular teacher realising that he had been 'hacked' as it were.
And that as a result 'lobster' came to the conclusion that Dzogchen was just another conventional path.

His whole C.V. is in the public domain if you know where to look.
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