Psychotic break after a meditation retreat

[pauline]

Hello again,
I was to a doctor and he put it me on antipsyhotics medication for one year to prevent a realapse.The dignosis was atipical psychotic episode induced by meditation:(

[heart]

Hello again,
I was to a doctor and he put it me on antipsyhotics medication for one year to prevent a realapse.The dignosis was atipical psychotic episode induced by meditation:(

Well done, you have to take care of you.

/magnus

[Saoshun]

Did you had any background of meditation or it was fresh new?

[pauline]

No background....fresh, new in this field
thanks for answer

[Dan74]

Hi pauline

I am really sorry that you had to endure this...

I've always heard that meditation can bring to the surface, things are are lurking beneath. I'm not sure if it's always true. I've also not had experience with this particular form of retreat, but it sounds to me like something that may not be quite suitable for beginners. Maybe the organisers stuffed up when they accepted you? Maybe you were just unlucky?

The main thing is to find what helps you now. What grounds you and diminishes the prominence of psychotic patterns. I know a solid healthy routine does help some people a lot.

In any case, all the best!!!!

_/|\_

[Anders]

I can't help but feel it was extremely irresponsible of the lama not to reply. I am sorry you couldn't get the kind of guidance you deserve.

[Luke]

Yeah, the first time you meditate deeply can bring up lots of negative stuff. It's better to start meditating in only small amounts (say just 15 minutes a day). But right now, you might be better off if you don't meditate at all (this is really something you should ask a Buddhist teacher in person about!).

Once at a talk by a great Drikung Kagyu lama, an audience member said that he had been using drugs and had many scary, hell-like visions and asked what to do. The lama told him that he should recite the long version of the refuge prayer.

I think he meant something like this, but I am not sure:
http://www.rigdzindharma.org/uploads/6/ ... prayer.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Or if you want a refuge prayer which is not Tibetan Buddhist, you could try this one by TNH:
http://www.ic.sunysb.edu/Clubs/buddhism ... rayer.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Good luck to you, and may the Three Jewels keep you safe!

[zenman]

The story is unfortunate but not rare. There are many cases like this happening. The problem is that number 1. such teachings or retreats should not be offered to people with very little or no background at all. Number 2. for the information of anyone who has had some mental health problems, it should be clearly explained in the retreat/teaching info that therapy and dharma-practice are two very diffrent things that have different goals. People simply do sometimes think they are the same but they aren't. I've seen Zen-teachers being critisized for lack of skills in not being able to help people who went into psychosis during sesshin. That is very unfortunate of course but dealing with such problems has nothing to do with the professional area of a zen teacher.

And last, it is a poor poor situation that people cannot be in contact with the concerned teachers/lamas even if the lamas don't know how to handle this kind of things. Thi is quite common, you know, not at all an uncommon phenomena. There should be an opportunity to get support.

There is quite a bit of info in the web about the Dark night-phenomena. Daniel Ingram's book is great as well as Dharma Overgound-forum. Find also Leigh Brasington's interview with Willoughby Britton from Vimeo (or was it YouTube). There is information available on this. People who have extensive first hand experience on this can help and offer advice with a thorough mapping of the situation.

[Paul]

The thread has been pruned a little.

[kirtu]

Yeah, the first time you meditate deeply can bring up lots of negative stuff. It's better to start meditating in only small amounts (say just 15 minutes a day). But right now, you might be better off if you don't meditate at all (this is really something you should ask a Buddhist teacher in person about!).

Once at a talk by a great Drikung Kagyu lama, an audience member said that he had been using drugs and had many scary, hell-like visions and asked what to do. The lama told him that he should recite the long version of the refuge prayer.

The first prayer listed is the long refuge prayer in Drikung Kagyu.

The short refuge prayer listed there is Atisha's refuge prayer and can be recited without any requirements. My Sakya lama in fact recommended doing 100,000 Atisha refuge prayers to start with.

Kirt

[emaho]

There is quite a bit of info in the web about the Dark night-phenomena. Daniel Ingram's book is great as well as Dharma Overgound-forum. Find also Leigh Brasington's interview with Willoughby Britton from Vimeo (or was it YouTube). There is information available on this. People who have extensive first hand experience on this can help and offer advice with a thorough mapping of the situation.

Daniel Ingram? Does he still claim to be an Arhat? If so he would be among the last persons I would take advice from on this matter...

[emaho]

Daniel Ingram? Does he still claim to be an Arhat? If so he would be among the last persons I would take advice from on this matter...

P.S.:

If, on the other hand, he has managed to get his feet on solid ground again he might indeed be qualified to give advice on the subject, based on first person experience.

[Silkofos]

I would recommend you to visit a therapist (psychotherapist or psychiatrist) that has prior experience with meditation and consult more that 1. I had a similar incident 7 years ago but my problem was panic due to the fact that I was like on an lsd trip without even smoking cigarettes, my body was vanishing and I couldn't sleep, feeling energies in my spine going up the head...like I am a battery or sth. Panic was the problem. After taking grounding from a good acupuncturist 3 times I had some time to relax out of all this strange experiences. One month after this I watched Namkhai Norbu on the net and in 2 days using the main guru yoga practice I managed to get over the panic thing. After this I got used to all the strange things that came...During this chaos some consulted me to visit a psychiatrist...t

At that time I was talking with a friend in Germany where he was doing his internship in psychiatry. He is very positive to all these energy things because he has followed for years orgonotherapy of Wilhelm Reich. I explained the whole thing and he told me that all the experiences seem like I unblocked a very big source of energy, when this came into existence it gave me new insight on how I perceive things. In cases you cannot handle these they create illusions...if you manage it you can integrate the new experience . So, even if you have a problem be sure to consult somebody (two or three different people) that has experience with meditation and energy. This is what I would do.

[Kim O'Hara]

... a friend in Germany where he was doing his internship in psychiatry. He is very positive to all these energy things because he has followed for years orgonotherapy of Wilhelm Reich...

It seems unlikely to me that someone could get that far in psychiatry while still believing such a theory as orgonotherapy.
Are you sure?


Kim

[Adamantine]

Reich was a gifted student of Freud, similar to Jung he developed his own theory
which continued as it's own school. Orgone energy doesn't seem so odd to me, less so than
many of Freud's ideas.

[Silkofos]

... a friend in Germany where he was doing his internship in psychiatry. He is very positive to all these energy things because he has followed for years orgonotherapy of Wilhelm Reich...

It seems unlikely to me that someone could get that far in psychiatry while still believing such a theory as orgonotherapy.
Are you sure?


Kim

Fritz Perls also used Reich's ideas about energy in psychotherapy and it worked. Anyway, the more the opinions from therapists that know what meditation is the better.

[Grigoris]

Reich was a gifted student of Freud, similar to Jung he developed his own theory
which continued as it's own school. Orgone energy doesn't seem so odd to me, less so than
many of Freud's ideas.

Reich lost it at some point (especially post 1939) and started on the orgone trip. His analysis of the Nazi movement in "The Mass Psychology of Fascism" is a must read. "Listen Little Man" is pretty decent too.

His ideas on sexual liberation were pretty damn revolutionary considering he was championing the cause in the 1930's.

[emaho]

... a friend in Germany where he was doing his internship in psychiatry. He is very positive to all these energy things because he has followed for years orgonotherapy of Wilhelm Reich...

It seems unlikely to me that someone could get that far in psychiatry while still believing such a theory as orgonotherapy.
Are you sure?


Kim

Not sure if doing an internship in psychiatry means to "make it that far". Every student of psychology or medicine can do an internship in psychiatry, even a 16 year old pupil can.

[Adamantine]

Reich was a gifted student of Freud, similar to Jung he developed his own theory
which continued as it's own school. Orgone energy doesn't seem so odd to me, less so than
many of Freud's ideas.

Reich lost it at some point (especially post 1939) and started on the orgone trip. His analysis of the Nazi movement in "The Mass Psychology of Fascism" is a must read. "Listen Little Man" is pretty decent too.

His ideas on sexual liberation were pretty damn revolutionary considering he was championing the cause in the 1930's.

I don't think he lost it... orgone energy is not so different necessarily than ideas of subtle energy in our tradition even. . is it? He was painted as crazy by the US government, his lab burned down, etc. but that says more about the repressed state of society at the time than Reich's ideas.

[Kim O'Hara]

... a friend in Germany where he was doing his internship in psychiatry. He is very positive to all these energy things because he has followed for years orgonotherapy of Wilhelm Reich...

It seems unlikely to me that someone could get that far in psychiatry while still believing such a theory as orgonotherapy.
Are you sure?


Kim

Not sure if doing an internship in psychiatry means to "make it that far". Every student of psychology or medicine can do an internship in psychiatry, even a 16 year old pupil can.

Here in Australia, a medical internship is a year of supervised full-time work, normally in a large teaching hospital, after graduation.
And Psychiatry is a specialisation studied after gaining a degree in general medicine, so someone doing an 'internship in psychiatry' has already done 8 - 10 years of tertiary study and often 2 or more years working as a doctor.


Kim