Turiiya

[joy&peace]

Ok. I found it wonderful, fascinating, and interesting, to say the least, to find this same teaching in both Shantideva and Ramana Maharshi. As mentioned, since Shantideva came first - this would seem to indicate Ramana had read Shantideva. Not to derail the thread but simply to add an interesting point.

Namaste; peace and love,
J

[anjali]

" I think it would be more interesting if there were any recorded conversations between Buddhists and Anandamayi Ma--who was rather interesting from my POV and lived until 1982. But that's not really relevant for this topic."

Arnaud Desjardins, in his book, "The Message of the Tibetans," describes a meeting between Anandamayi Ma and His Holiness the 16th Karmapa.

Thanks. I don't access to the text. Could you summarize what was said about the meeting, or perhaps offer up an interesting quote or two?

[tepp01]

Anjali, I no longer have access to the text, but what I remember is that, according to Desjardins, Sonam Kazi helped interpret their conversation (Bengali, Hindi, Tibetan, English).

[anjali]

Anjali, I no longer have access to the text, but what I remember is that, according to Desjardins, Sonam Kazi helped interpret their conversation (Bengali, Hindi, Tibetan, English).

Ok. Sadly, both Desjardins and Sonam Kazi are dead, so I can't contact them directly. Will try to get a copy via local interlibrary loan. Thanks for the pointer.

[dreambow]

joy&peace, " I found it wonderful, fascinating, and interesting, to say the least, to find this same teaching in both Shantideva and Ramana Maharshi. As mentioned, since Shantideva came first - this would seem to indicate Ramana had read Shantideva"
I'm absolutely sure that Ramana had never read Shantideva. Actually he had read very little. He was still at school, there was no scholarship, no linage. Ramana was talking from his own direct experience.

[Simon E.]

Anjali, I no longer have access to the text, but what I remember is that, according to Desjardins, Sonam Kazi helped interpret their conversation (Bengali, Hindi, Tibetan, English).

Ok. Sadly, both Desjardins and Sonam Kazi are dead, so I can't contact them directly. Will try to get a copy via local interlibrary loan. Thanks for the pointer.

Both Desjardins, Sonam Kazi, the 16th Karmapa and Anadamayima are all dead.
It was a different age, when the then current spiritual and secular cultures were just discovering each other.

Commonalities AND differences are now clearer.

Perhaps we should ' leave the dead to bury their dead '.

[MalaBeads]

Commonalities AND differences are now clearer.

This is quite true and the distinctions will continue to come into focus as time goes on I think.

There is a wonderful text named "Sandokai" which comes from the zen tradition. It means "the merging of sameness and difference". Suzuki-roshi gave a series of lectures on it and there is now a book of the same name by Mel Weitzman and Michael Wenger.

Traditionally, it is said that a zen teacher does not teach Sandokai until he is nearing the end of his life. From that, I understand that it must be an advanced teaching.

Everything changes, including the times. Traditon is useful but clinging to it is not. Tradition can support but it also can calcify. We all have our limitations. After all, we all have bodies and at least in my estimation, that is the biggest limitation of all. Going beyond the limitation of the body does mean dying either. It may just mean becoming a rainbow body. But first things first, eh? The merging of sameness and difference......

[tepp01]

Anjali, that's how I accessed the copy I read, through inter-library loan.

[anjali]

Both Desjardins, Sonam Kazi, the 16th Karmapa and Anadamayima are all dead.
It was a different age, when the then current spiritual and secular cultures were just discovering each other.

Commonalities AND differences are now clearer.

Perhaps we should ' leave the dead to bury their dead '.

Interfaith dialogue is certainly not everyone's cup of tea. Nor should it be. Speaking only for myself, when two great masters from different traditions who both fully embody love and compassion (such as the 16th Karmapa and Anandamayi Ma) meet, I find that inherently interesting and worth looking into.

[Karma Dorje]

Both Desjardins, Sonam Kazi, the 16th Karmapa and Anadamayima are all dead.
It was a different age, when the then current spiritual and secular cultures were just discovering each other.

Commonalities AND differences are now clearer.

Perhaps we should ' leave the dead to bury their dead '.

Yes, because earnest intellectuals are obviously so much better at assessing spirituality than the 16th Karmapa.

Are you taking the piss? We are talking about the 60s. It's not so long ago. There might even be some denizens of this forum that can remember that time! (Long before they became ossified in place by their opinions)

[dzogchungpa]

Both Desjardins, Sonam Kazi, the 16th Karmapa and Anadamayima are all dead.
It was a different age, when the then current spiritual and secular cultures were just discovering each other.

Commonalities AND differences are now clearer.

Perhaps we should ' leave the dead to bury their dead '.

Yes, because earnest intellectuals are obviously so much better at assessing spirituality than the 16th Karmapa.

Are you taking the piss? We are talking about the 60s. It's not so long ago. There might even be some denizens of this forum that can remember that time! (Long before they became ossified in place by their opinions)

This.