Abhijñā and Dzogchen

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pothigai
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Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:26 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Abhijñā and Dzogchen

Post by pothigai »

Generally it seems that, according to the Pali Canon, a practitioner develops the abhijñās upon mastery of the fourth jhāna. I've heard accounts of people developing them earlier as well, these experiences are mainly to do with remembering past lives. It seems that these abilities arise as a result of the mind being free of the five hindrances; the product of abiding in jhāna.

Within the Dzogchen path, are such abilities also developed? If so, at what point does this happen?
ہستی اپنی حباب کی سی ہے
یہ نمائش سراب کی سی ہے

hasti apni habaab ki si hai
yeh numaaish saraab ki si hai

Like a bubble is your existence
This display is like an illusion

- Mir Taqi Mir (1725-1810)
Simon E.
Posts: 7652
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Abhijñā and Dzogchen

Post by Simon E. »

I fear you are conflating two very different approaches to Dharma. You will find it very difficult to form an accurate view of Dzogchen if you look it at it through a sutric lens..

There is an old joke about a tourist in Ireland asking a local the best way to Dublin...to which the local replies ' If I were you I wouldn't start from here '. :smile:
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
pothigai
Posts: 113
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:26 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Abhijñā and Dzogchen

Post by pothigai »

Simon E. wrote:I fear you are conflating two very different approaches to Dharma. You will find it very difficult to form an accurate view of Dzogchen if you look it at it through a sutric lens..

There is an old joke about a tourist in Ireland asking a local the best way to Dublin...to which the local replies ' If I were you I wouldn't start from here '. :smile:
I don't intend to conflate them, just to compare. I apologise if it is unclear what I intended to ask.

Such capacities are developed in the sutra path after fourth jhana mastery. My question is; are such capacities also developed in the dzogchen path? If so, when are they developed?
ہستی اپنی حباب کی سی ہے
یہ نمائش سراب کی سی ہے

hasti apni habaab ki si hai
yeh numaaish saraab ki si hai

Like a bubble is your existence
This display is like an illusion

- Mir Taqi Mir (1725-1810)
amanitamusc
Posts: 2124
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:32 am

Re: Abhijñā and Dzogchen

Post by amanitamusc »

Dzogchen is the True Nature.Kadak and Lhundrup non dual.

This is recognized or not recognized.

Everything is pure .

There is nothing to develop or discard.
Malcolm
Posts: 42974
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Abhijñā and Dzogchen

Post by Malcolm »

pothigai wrote:Generally it seems that, according to the Pali Canon, a practitioner develops the abhijñās upon mastery of the fourth jhāna. I've heard accounts of people developing them earlier as well, these experiences are mainly to do with remembering past lives. It seems that these abilities arise as a result of the mind being free of the five hindrances; the product of abiding in jhāna.

Within the Dzogchen path, are such abilities also developed? If so, at what point does this happen?
They develop in the second vision.
amanitamusc
Posts: 2124
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:32 am

Re: Abhijñā and Dzogchen

Post by amanitamusc »

This. does not contradict my last post ,Pothgai
Natan
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Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 5:48 pm

Re: Abhijñā and Dzogchen

Post by Natan »

pothigai wrote:Generally it seems that, according to the Pali Canon, a practitioner develops the abhijñās upon mastery of the fourth jhāna. I've heard accounts of people developing them earlier as well, these experiences are mainly to do with remembering past lives. It seems that these abilities arise as a result of the mind being free of the five hindrances; the product of abiding in jhāna.

Within the Dzogchen path, are such abilities also developed? If so, at what point does this happen?
When you connect to the lineage they just do. There are special methods for activities. These emanate directly from the dharmakaya. Since these abide in oneness, if you engage the fearless activities the siddhis come part and parcel. Or if you are practicing the yangsal nyingthig there are teachings on stages and you can refer to the bhumis of the sutra teachings to know which siddhis occur when
Vajra fangs deliver vajra venom to your Mara body.
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