The Nature of Obscuration in Dzogchen

[heart]

EPK once told me that Tulku Urgyen sometimes said that the obscurations was like having a paper bag over your head. That every time you recognised the natural state it was like you were punching a hole in that paper bag. Through that hole you will have a short experience of the natural state and then you would get distracted with the paper bag again. Eventually the paper bag will be mostly holes and one day it just fall off, full enlightenment.

Thinking about that over the years I have formed the idea is that purification and accumulation of merit is really helpful to punch hole in that paper bag. In fact without tremendous purification and merit it will not even happen once.

Happy new year everyone!

/magnus

[Vasana]

This is a great thread. Very helpful.

In regards to Dzogchen, where is the best place to start with Mipham?

[Tao]

Excelent thread, deep bow for the writers: Malcom, Krodha & Florin.

Sincere thanks

[Natan]

The problem with some of these examples is that they imply some reality or materiality with regard to the ignorances. They really and truly are delusions. Their is truly no sheath or veil. It's as if one has to talk the common babble but it doesn't give it substance. The best example is the rope mistaken for a snake. When the light comes on, the snake is not burned or destroyed. You don't poke holes in it until it crumbles. It doesn't go anywhere, because it never was there. So if you want to graduate from elementary school examples and talk like a grown up, I suggest dropping these examples. They are meant for children and uneducated people. The lamas know this.

[dzogchungpa]

The best example is the rope mistaken for a snake. When the light comes on, the snake is not burned or destroyed. You don't poke holes in it until it crumbles. It doesn't go anywhere, because it never was there.

Time is the snake.

[heart]

The problem with some of these examples is that they imply some reality or materiality with regard to the ignorances. They really and truly are delusions. Their is truly no sheath or veil. It's as if one has to talk the common babble but it doesn't give it substance. The best example is the rope mistaken for a snake. When the light comes on, the snake is not burned or destroyed. You don't poke holes in it until it crumbles. It doesn't go anywhere, because it never was there. So if you want to graduate from elementary school examples and talk like a grown up, I suggest dropping these examples. They are meant for children and uneducated people. The lamas know this.

"Some examples"? I am pretty sure you only mean my post old friend . The rest of posts have that high intellectual standard that you feel comfortable with. But I like Tulku Urgyens example, I am sorry if you don't get it.

/magnus

[Schrödinger’s Yidam]

"The Uttaratantra" is full of analogies that use material objects to make its points: clouds covering the sun, gold in ore, a statue wrapped in rags, etc. It's one of the seminal texts for these kinds of ideas.

[Malcolm]

"The Uttaratantra" is full of analogies that use material objects to make its points: clouds covering the sun, gold in ore, a statue wrapped in rags, etc. It's one of the seminal texts for these kinds of ideas.

But if you take them literally, your view will be no better than the Hindu view of self, which is why they require interpretation.

[Malcolm]

This is a great thread. Very helpful.

In regards to Dzogchen, where is the best place to start with Mipham?

There is very little that is published out there.

M

[Thomas Amundsen]

This is a great thread. Very helpful.

In regards to Dzogchen, where is the best place to start with Mipham?

Luminous Essence, his guide to the Guhyagarbha Tantra, is really good.

[Matt J]

Some of us evidently have found Mipam on Buddhanature by Douglas Duckworth to be helpful, though it is academic (but not as academic as others).

Anyen Rinpoche's book Journey to Certainty covers a lot of Mipham's views in plain English.