Alan Wallace - any experiences with his retreats?

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lunak
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Alan Wallace - any experiences with his retreats?

Post by lunak »

Hello again :)

You all helped me very much with my previous post, which I thought for long, that no one answered :). Today I have busy Sunday browsing thru all the information you gave me :).

I have also retreat recommendation-based questions now. I would like to get your opinion on Alan Wallace teachings. He seems to be so great teacher (I base on the techings and youtube videos), so energetic, so convincing, that I wanted to go to his workshops (March, Spain). But I have one problem; these workshops costs 400 EUR for 6 days + almost 300 EUR accomodation with food. Being from Vipassana community, where learning/retreats are for free and donation-based, I start to have doubts, as I have strong belief, that the courses should not be a big source of material profit.

But anyway - I am able to pay this much, if it's worth it. So - question; do you have any experience with Alan Wallace teachings/retreats?

Thank you,
Lukasz
kukuripa
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Re: Alan Wallace - any experiences with his retreats?

Post by kukuripa »

I really recommend Alan Wallace ,and I have heard many hours of his teaching,and that price is common for these kind of retreats,so do it if you can,but I think you can also learn that subject quite well from reading his book
lunak
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Re: Alan Wallace - any experiences with his retreats?

Post by lunak »

Thanks Kukuripa,

have you been to his workshops?
what is the title of the book yo9u mentioned?

Lu
kukuripa
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Re: Alan Wallace - any experiences with his retreats?

Post by kukuripa »

lunak wrote:Thanks Kukuripa,

have you been to his workshops?
what is the title of the book yo9u mentioned?

Lu
Try this for starters
http://www.amazon.com/Stilling-Mind-Sha ... an+wallace
mahabuddha
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Re: Alan Wallace - any experiences with his retreats?

Post by mahabuddha »

Seven hundred euros for six days including room and board is extremely reasonable. I am director of a non-profit and it is extremely expensive to rent facilities and offer food and lodging. Some groups are able to sustain themselves off of donations like some vipassana centers, however, many can't due to donations being small. Our center basically operates "pay check to pay check" from donations from visiting teachers. If it is important to you, you will find great appreciation in paying your way for special retreats.

-Yours in the Dharma!
steve_bakr
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Re: Alan Wallace - any experiences with his retreats?

Post by steve_bakr »

Alan Wallace is extremely knowledgable and very good at retreats.
lunak
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Re: Alan Wallace - any experiences with his retreats?

Post by lunak »

Thank you for your help. I will go for this retreat, seems to be perfect for Dzogchen beginner like me :)

Lukasz
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Adamantine
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Re: Alan Wallace - any experiences with his retreats?

Post by Adamantine »

lunak wrote: Being from Vipassana community, where learning/retreats are for free and donation-based, I start to have doubts, as I have strong belief, that the courses should not be a big source of material profit.
All retreats cost $, due to costs of the property (maintenance or rental), the travel expenses of a teacher, supportive staff, and food for everyone including the teacher and staff. The reason why the Goenka/vipassana centers don't charge explicitly is because they are able to cover these costs through donations rather than explicitly charging people. However having done retreat at a Goenka/vipassana center myself I witnessed that immediately after emerging from the 10 day silent intensive, (which is akin to a sensory deprivation tank for 10 days since over 10 hours a day is spent in closed-eye meditation focused within the frame of the body), when everyone is still extremely open, vulnerable, impressionable and not yet integrated into regular life (or even regular communication), they press you really hard for contributions. I found this in bad taste. I do appreciate that the retreats are free and that others with more resources enable those with less to do free retreats, which is a Dharma tradition. However I would prefer to pay for a retreat up front if I had the resources than to be psychologically pressured to give a donation immediately upon coming out of retreat when my attention and energy should be (in my opinion) given more spaciousness. Most (or at the least many) retreat centers and facilities have scholarship opportunities for those who truly are in financial need but have sincere aspiration. There's also websites like http://www.theofferingbowl.com/ that facilitate matching up individuals looking to sponsor practitioners with candidates who are in need.
I don't think the Allan Wallace retreat you mentioned sounds like it will be making much profit. Sometimes anything that looks like it may be beyond simply covering retreat expenses goes to the teacher so they can afford to spend the time teaching. Most teachers would have to spend their time working some other job if students were not willing to contribute in exchange for their time and energy teaching. Also, in the Vajrayana tradition going back to ancient India, a gift of gold was often required of the student to receive the teachings. This is even in some texts explicitly. The idea is that one should have a real sense of how precious these teachings are, much more so than gold really. . .
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
lunak
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Re: Alan Wallace - any experiences with his retreats?

Post by lunak »

thank you for your opinion, as I mentioned - I am already decided :)

but I have to disagree with this statement of yours:
when everyone is still extremely open, vulnerable, impressionable and not yet integrated into regular life (or even regular communication), they press you really hard for contributions. I found this in bad taste.
I base on my and my friens' cases; I didn't feel any pressing, and my friends either, with many Vipassana retreats being done. Moreover - I know people, who really didn't give much, or nothing, and nobody "pressed" them in any way. I am sorry if this happened to you, but still I would avoid generalizing your case to whole community.
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Re: Alan Wallace - any experiences with his retreats?

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Whatever the case, that is really -not- an expensive teaching at all, at least from my experiences....it's quite reasonable.
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Re: Alan Wallace - any experiences with his retreats?

Post by Adamantine »

lunak wrote:thank you for your opinion, as I mentioned - I am already decided :)

but I have to disagree with this statement of yours:
when everyone is still extremely open, vulnerable, impressionable and not yet integrated into regular life (or even regular communication), they press you really hard for contributions. I found this in bad taste.
I base on my and my friens' cases; I didn't feel any pressing, and my friends either, with many Vipassana retreats being done. Moreover - I know people, who really didn't give much, or nothing, and nobody "pressed" them in any way. I am sorry if this happened to you, but still I would avoid generalizing your case to whole community.
Let me clarify: I was not personally pressed. However right after we broke silence we were all ushered into a room where we were shown videos about how great Vipassana was and the prison experiments they've done which seemed fantastic but that bordered on propaganda, and then a long talk was given about how important it was to give donations so that other people could do the retreats, basically strongly encouraging reciprocity. They also were expecting to take donations on the spot, and were ready to accept credit cards, etc. When you come out of 10 days of absolutely no communication and then are made to sit through a type of fundraising drive it is more than an assault on the senses and makes one feel uncomfortable especially if one doesn't have much to offer. That's why I would prefer to have it really clear from the beginning that either I am a) offering something up front to cover costs or b) receiving the generosity of a sponsorship / scholarship. Financial issues are really the last thing I want to be confronted with thinking about immediately upon my reentry from retreat. I found it extremely abrasive. Perhaps that was just the case at that time and place in that location (a large center in Massachusetts which they were actively renovating / expanding) and it is different depending on where you are and who is in charge of the retreat. However I got the impression that it was part of the overall formula.
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
lunak
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Re: Alan Wallace - any experiences with his retreats?

Post by lunak »

Let me clarify: I was not personally pressed. However right after we broke silence we were all ushered into a room where we were shown videos about how great Vipassana was and the prison experiments they've done which seemed fantastic but that bordered on propaganda, and then a long talk was given about how important it was to give donations so that other people could do the retreats, basically strongly encouraging reciprocity. They also were expecting to take donations on the spot, and were ready to accept credit cards, etc. When you come out of 10 days of absolutely no communication and then are made to sit through a type of fundraising drive it is more than an assault on the senses and makes one feel uncomfortable especially if one doesn't have much to offer. That's why I would prefer to have it really clear from the beginning that either I am a) offering something up front to cover costs or b) receiving the generosity of a sponsorship / scholarship. Financial issues are really the last thing I want to be confronted with thinking about immediately upon my reentry from retreat. I found it extremely abrasive. Perhaps that was just the case at that time and place in that location (a large center in Massachusetts which they were actively renovating / expanding) and it is different depending on where you are and who is in charge of the retreat. However I got the impression that it was part of the overall formula.
Thanks for explanation. I see your point.

My good friend, thanks to the fact that retreats were for free, was there already few times, and gave anly small amounts, but in return served many times and worked phisically for development of the centers. In my case I was giving exactly the amount I planned, although I could give more ;). Personally I still think, that the idea of donations after the retreat (I was eve said, that I could give it later), together with serving are just fair. Were in my case at least :)
Malcolm
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Re: Alan Wallace - any experiences with his retreats?

Post by Malcolm »

Adamantine wrote:
lunak wrote:thank you for your opinion, as I mentioned - I am already decided :)

but I have to disagree with this statement of yours:
when everyone is still extremely open, vulnerable, impressionable and not yet integrated into regular life (or even regular communication), they press you really hard for contributions. I found this in bad taste.
I base on my and my friens' cases; I didn't feel any pressing, and my friends either, with many Vipassana retreats being done. Moreover - I know people, who really didn't give much, or nothing, and nobody "pressed" them in any way. I am sorry if this happened to you, but still I would avoid generalizing your case to whole community.
Let me clarify: I was not personally pressed. However right after we broke silence we were all ushered into a room where we were shown videos about how great Vipassana was and the prison experiments they've done which seemed fantastic but that bordered on propaganda, and then a long talk was given about how important it was to give donations so that other people could do the retreats, basically strongly encouraging reciprocity. They also were expecting to take donations on the spot, and were ready to accept credit cards, etc. When you come out of 10 days of absolutely no communication and then are made to sit through a type of fundraising drive it is more than an assault on the senses and makes one feel uncomfortable especially if one doesn't have much to offer. That's why I would prefer to have it really clear from the beginning that either I am a) offering something up front to cover costs or b) receiving the generosity of a sponsorship / scholarship. Financial issues are really the last thing I want to be confronted with thinking about immediately upon my reentry from retreat. I found it extremely abrasive. Perhaps that was just the case at that time and place in that location (a large center in Massachusetts which they were actively renovating / expanding) and it is different depending on where you are and who is in charge of the retreat. However I got the impression that it was part of the overall formula.
Goenka Vipassana is kind of cultish, if you ask me (no one did, but still).
tepp01
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Re: Alan Wallace - any experiences with his retreats?

Post by tepp01 »

Goenka's Vipassana retreat was probably the LEAST cultish experience I've ever had with Buddhist meditation (my first Zen retreat was around 1982, so I've been around a little).
kukuripa
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Re: Alan Wallace - any experiences with his retreats?

Post by kukuripa »

tepp01 wrote:Goenka's Vipassana retreat was probably the LEAST cultish experience I've ever had with Buddhist meditation (my first Zen retreat was around 1982, so I've been around a little).
I would agree,and add that any of these Dzogchen centers,or any dharma center for that matter,tends to have an inner circle that one may well describe as "cultish'

In addition, paying a fee in advance does not prevent one from being assaulted by endless requests for more money for everything from decorations to dana for the teachers ,staff,maintenance,expansion, monuments etc for the rest of your life on to the inheritor of your email address
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