Minimum requirement for getting a relatively okay rebirth?

[BuddhaFollower]

The reason why ChNN doesn't require ngondro is because he doesn't teach from Longchen Nyingthig, Gongpa Zangthal etc.

ChNN is teaching from his own dream teachings.

[florin]

Have focused on meditation, and felt little need to behave unethically, so have never read much about how karma and transmigration works. Will appreciate authoritative references now however. Especially if it's the case that TB teaches the view that negative karma from earlier life can cause a well-behaved layperson to get a miserable life after death, without access to dhamma.

Not fearing death is not the same as not fearing intense pain when living. After seeing that Bruce Newman put some emphasis on warning people against rebirths in hells, I got curious about the metaphysics of Buddhism. (Take curiosity very seriously. It drives scientists.)

Regarding ChNN, I have to be humble of course, since I'm a noob when in comes to understanding Tibetan Buddhism. Have seen that some claim that Ngondro was not originally part of Dzogchen. But Ngondro seems to be a central part of all the four schools, so prefer not to take any short-cuts unless the mainstream of lamas accept that ChNN's way has the equivalent standard as those Dzogchen teachers who demand prior Ngondro prostrations.

If you want to focus on dzogchen as taught by Namkhai Norbu you do the dzogchen ngondro that he devised .This ngondro does not have prostrations.

[florin]

The reason why ChNN doesn't require ngondro is because he doesn't teach from Longchen Nyingthig, Gongpa Zangthal etc.

ChNN is teaching from his own dream teachings.

He does not say no to ngondro.
If you are a serious student of his you concentrate on the SMS program that is quite extensive and specific to dzogchen.
He does not always teach from his terma.

[Kelwin]

Can move to Gomde in Denmark or Nepal, but it seems like Chökyi Nyima Rinpoche demands Ngondro prostrations before giving more or less advanced Dzogchen teachings. Is that correct?

Not correct. He will teach you whatever you need! And he definitely gives Dzogchen teachings and direct introduction also to those who haven't done prostrations. And many members of the community have a physical problem that don't allow them to do prostrations, it's ok. Just do what you can.

You seem to be on the right track. Chokyi Nyima Rinpoche might be greatest teacher I met who uses a traditional structured style of teaching (yet gives the full Dzogchen view from the start). Also in Gomde Denmark you could learn a lot from Erik Pema Kunsang, and a number of traditional lamas who are being sent there by Chokyi Nyima Rinpoche.
Namkhai Norbu on the other hand, might be the greatest teacher I met who uses a non-traditional and non-structured style of teaching (Although Dzogchen certainly has a clear structure of it's own). He goes straight to the essence, every single time. He certainly won't force you to hurt your knees with prostrations, and you can basically do any of his practices as you like. Whatever helps you to remain in a state of contemplation/rigpa, is what is best.

[Kelwin]

PS, regarding the next life... You never know what karma you still have from lives before. So, practice hard, now. There are no guarantees in samsara.

[pemachophel]

In terms of ngondro and prostrations, recently Lama Pema Dorje, in response to older students who find it physically difficult/impossible to do prostrations, has instituted an alternative: For those 50 years old and older, 10 million Vajra Guru mantra in three years. I believe the first group pledging to accomplish this started last weekend (or at least very recently). As mentioned previously on Dharmawheel, there are also other alternatives to full prostrations, including, for instance, "table prostrations."

I would suggest two things: First find your Teacher, the Guru you think can lead you from ignorance to Enlightenment and with whom you feel you have a karmic connection. Personally, I cannot stress enough how important it is in Vajrayana/Dzogchen to find your Teacher. At the very least and until you find your Teacher, find a well-trained and experienced Teacher from an authentic lineage. Then discuss this whole issue with Him or Her. If a person physically cannot do prostrations, the Teacher should be able to provide an alternative. You do not need to let this be an impediment to your practice.

[Simon E.]

Of course, there are those who did the full Kagyu Ngondro and now wonder whether it was strictly necessary, but was probably good for the heart/lung system.

[Malcolm]

So what do you Tibetan Buddhists think about the necessary minimum requirements for at least avoiding a miserable life the next time I die on this potentially never-ending journey through samsara?

Find a a master of Dzogchen, a guru who will directly introduce you to your "primordial state." Then, practice according that guru's instructions. Even if you do not realize buddhahood in this life, or even the bardo, you will never return to samsara as a sentient being.

[treehuggingoctopus]

Namkhai Norbu on the other hand, might be the greatest teacher I met who uses a non-traditional and non-structured style of teaching (Although Dzogchen certainly has a clear structure of it's own).

As has been pointed out, ChNN's style of teaching is not "non-traditional".

Nor is it invariably "non-structured" -- which is why florin mentioned the SMS programme:

The reason why ChNN doesn't require ngondro is because he doesn't teach from Longchen Nyingthig, Gongpa Zangthal etc.

ChNN is teaching from his own dream teachings.

He does not say no to ngondro.
If you are a serious student of his you concentrate on the SMS program that is quite extensive and specific to dzogchen.
He does not always teach from his terma.

[Kelwin]

Of course, there are those who did the full Kagyu Ngondro and now wonder whether it was strictly necessary, but was probably good for the heart/lung system.

Yup

[Kelwin]

As has been pointed out, ChNN's style of teaching is not "non-traditional".

Nor is it invariably "non-structured"

Agreed, of course! Maybe i should say 'not following the typical traditional Nyingma structure', although that could also be seen as incorrect. But I guess you get the meaning.

[Malcolm]

As has been pointed out, ChNN's style of teaching is not "non-traditional".

Nor is it invariably "non-structured"

Agreed, of course! Maybe i should say 'not following the typical traditional Nyingma structure', although that could also be seen as incorrect. But I guess you get the meaning.

Every teacher teaches his or her students according to their best effort. It is not correct to say this approach or that approach is the best for all students.

There is no such thing as "pure Dzogchen," and ChNN himself said it first.

[Kelwin]

As has been pointed out, ChNN's style of teaching is not "non-traditional".

Nor is it invariably "non-structured"

Agreed, of course! Maybe i should say 'not following the typical traditional Nyingma structure', although that could also be seen as incorrect. But I guess you get the meaning.

Every teacher teaches his or her students according to their best effort. It is not correct to say this approach or that approach is the best for all students.

There is no such thing as "pure Dzogchen," and ChNN himself said it first.

I don't think anyone said that? I certainly agree. Which is also why I highly recommend two teachers who have a very different style, that OP seems to know about (CNR and NNR). I have no idea what is best for him, or anyone. Only that those two masters are some of the greatest beings I've been lucky enough to be in contact with.

[Lazy Monk]

Thank you all for very helpful advice and information. A relief to hear that there are alternatives to the "knee-bending" prostrations. If one of the points is to bow your head to the ground I can do 100 000 sit ups for example, or something similar which a lama finds suitable. After this information it has become more realistic to move to Gomde in Denmark or Nepal. Again many thanks!

[BuddhaFollower]

The reason why ChNN doesn't require ngondro is because he doesn't teach from Longchen Nyingthig, Gongpa Zangthal etc.

ChNN is teaching from his own dream teachings.

Also, ChNN gives transmission for Guru Rinpoche guru yoga (particularly the one from Adzom Drugpa WWT), which by all accounts is the most important part of Nyingma ngondro.

[Punya]

Aware that ChNN doesn't demand Ngondro prostrations, but coming from Theravada I prefer to do things in a traditional and authentic way, or at least be sufficiently certain that a modern way is the equivalent of the traditional.

It's not a question of traditional vs modern it's simply a different approach. Both are authentic.

Ngondro seemed like a rather pointless threadmill, until I read more about it. No problem with it now, except that 100 000 prostrations are not possible without destroying the knees.Can move to Gomde in Denmark or Nepal, but it seems like Chökyi Nyima Rinpoche demands Ngondro prostrations before giving more or less advanced Dzogchen teachings. Is that correct?

If you have a physical disability you will simply be given an alternative practice, but why not ask Gomde.

[Lazy Monk]

I will contact Gomde. But it seems like they demand Ngondro:

"Prerequisites for this seminar include:

*One must have taken refuge and bodhisattva vows.
*One must have begun the preliminary practice (ngöndro) with a firm commitment to complete the practice.
*One must have, in the past, attended at least two seminars with Chökyi Nyima Rinpoche."

http://gomde.at/eng/program_detail.php?id=98

[Könchok Thrinley]

I will contact Gomde. But it seems like they demand Ngondro:

"Prerequisites for this seminar include:

*One must have taken refuge and bodhisattva vows.
*One must have begun the preliminary practice (ngöndro) with a firm commitment to complete the practice.
*One must have, in the past, attended at least two seminars with Chökyi Nyima Rinpoche."

http://gomde.at/eng/program_detail.php?id=98

I know you might not be interested, but soon (12.8.-14.8.) ChNN will be teaching in Prague and that event will be available openly through webcast so you can join and recieve teachings like that, also there will be more ritual transmission of guruyoga. If I were you I'd give it a try to discover what ChNN and his teachings are all about and as a bonus you'd get a transmission, which means you'd be able to practice right away.

[Lazy Monk]

Thanks for good suggestion Appreciate it a lot. I'm up in the mountains until autumn however, but will visit a monastery after that.

[Kelwin]

I will contact Gomde. But it seems like they demand Ngondro:

"Prerequisites for this seminar include:

*One must have taken refuge and bodhisattva vows.
*One must have begun the preliminary practice (ngöndro) with a firm commitment to complete the practice.
*One must have, in the past, attended at least two seminars with Chökyi Nyima Rinpoche."

http://gomde.at/eng/program_detail.php?id=98

Contact them, explain your situation, exceptions are made. Hurting knees will in itself NOT prevent you from attending, trust me. Also, instead of the ngondro, it is often ok to be practicing his Tara Triple Excellence program, which will teach all 9 yanas from Theravada to Atiyoga inseperably.

Having attended his seminars before might be a more solid requirement, but you can certainly join the seminar that precedes this one. There you can meet him, and ask him what you can join, what you can practice, how to deal with the knees and prostrations, etc.

It's a beautiful place, with wonderful people. I love combining the amazing dharma teachings with walks in the hills and mountains, and swimming in the nearby river and lakes.