Five-Long Life Sisters and Tseringma
Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:46 pm
Was wondering if anyone knows the history of how the Five Long Life Sisters joined with Nyingmapa. I'm only familiar with how they became disciples of Milarepa.
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adinatha wrote:Was wondering if anyone knows the history of how the Five Long Life Sisters joined with Nyingmapa. I'm only familiar with how they became disciples of Milarepa.
The twelve Tenma are protectors of the Dzogchen teachings.adinatha wrote:Oh now I remember. The Mila story says they were almost tamed by Padmasambhava but he didn't give them deep dharma teachings so they went back to being bad. Then, they badgered Mila and he gave them teachings that finally turned them into dharma beings. Is that about right?
This based on your scholarship that the Mila songs are what a lie? Oh I forget everything written in a Dzogchen text is true, everything else is a lie.Namdrol wrote:The twelve Tenma are protectors of the Dzogchen teachings.adinatha wrote:Oh now I remember. The Mila story says they were almost tamed by Padmasambhava but he didn't give them deep dharma teachings so they went back to being bad. Then, they badgered Mila and he gave them teachings that finally turned them into dharma beings. Is that about right?
So that detail is not correct.
The twelve tenma have been protectors of Dzogchen teachings since Padmasambhava tamed them and entrusted them with various cycles of Dzogchen teachings that are under their care.adinatha wrote:This based on your scholarship that the Mila songs are what a lie? Oh I forget everything written in a Dzogchen text is true, everything else is a lie.Namdrol wrote:The twelve Tenma are protectors of the Dzogchen teachings.adinatha wrote:Oh now I remember. The Mila story says they were almost tamed by Padmasambhava but he didn't give them deep dharma teachings so they went back to being bad. Then, they badgered Mila and he gave them teachings that finally turned them into dharma beings. Is that about right?
So that detail is not correct.
adinatha wrote:Milarepa tamed them...
oh what's the use.
So let me get this straight. The Nyingmpa texts are reliable and the Kagyu texts are not. You are saying the Nyingmpa lineage has a factual basis and the kagyu lineage is based on lies. I have news for you. They are both based on lies. Either that or they both have a deeper import. None of the "facts" reported anywhere in Indian/Tibetan literature have any shred of evidentiary value. If you think otherwise, you are totally deluding yourself. At some level it's all hype. At another level is faith. You need to face that, and stop making it seem like you have facts. You don't. Period.Namdrol wrote:adinatha wrote:Milarepa tamed them...
oh what's the use.
You are basing this on a biography that was written five hundred years after the fact.
Tsang Nyong Heruka's bio of Mila is an inspired piece of historical fiction based on the many oral traditions he collected travelling all over the Himalayan regions where Milarepa wandered. While I have no doubt that Mila adopted the Tsheringma sisters as guardians since the presence of the five Tseringma sisters as guardians in the Kagyu school is well attested, I don't see any reason to accept Tsang Nyon's narratives at face value.adinatha wrote:So let me get this straight. The Nyingmpa texts are reliable and the Kagyu texts are not.Namdrol wrote:adinatha wrote:Milarepa tamed them...
oh what's the use.
You are basing this on a biography that was written five hundred years after the fact.
Jinzang wrote:The story of Tseringma is in the Hundred Thousand Songs, not Tsang Nyong Heruka's biography.
The other passage isThen came the Goddess Tseringma to test me by displaying various super-nornal powers.
So while it's fair to say that the story of Tseringma is mentioned in Milarepa's most famous bography, don't think it's correct to say that it's in Milarepa's biography. But words are slippery and you are entitled to your interpretation.Coming thence to Chubar, he preached three sermons regarding Tseringma.
The point was two-fold. Tseringma had been tamed by Padmasambhava, not Mila. Second, that Tseringma appeared to test Mila's yogic power.Jinzang wrote:I checked the book before posting. I missed two brief passages which, thanks to Google, I could find in the Evans Wentz translation. The more relevant of the two goes,
The other passage isThen came the Goddess Tseringma to test me by displaying various super-nornal powers.
So while it's fair to say that the story of Tseringma is mentioned in Milarepa's most famous bography, don't think it's correct to say that it's in Milarepa's biography. But words are slippery and you are entitled to your interpretation.Coming thence to Chubar, he preached three sermons regarding Tseringma.