Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Kris
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Kris »

RikudouSennin wrote:The Yoga of Prana for Clarity and Emptiness

http://shangshung.org/store/index.php?m ... cts_id=751

Does this text reguire a transmission or is it for general prana practice?
Is yantra yoga lung and instructions sufficient?
Heard back from the Boss, and it is much better to receive transmission to do that practice.
It's all good though cause the Yantra Yoga Pranayamas are excellent.

Peace
The profound path of the master.
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climb-up
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by climb-up »

This is a SUPER long shot, but does anyone happen to have a list of the lung given during the the Longsal mirror of vajrasattva webcast during Aug 2015?
If anyone happens to, would you know which of the two kalachakra practices was given?

I am assuming that no one will, and I have plenty of practices to keep me busy in addition to the main practice, but if anyone happens to know I would be very grateful.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by treehuggingoctopus »

climb-up wrote:This is a SUPER long shot, but does anyone happen to have a list of the lung given during the the Longsal mirror of vajrasattva webcast during Aug 2015?
If anyone happens to, would you know which of the two kalachakra practices was given?

I am assuming that no one will, and I have plenty of practices to keep me busy in addition to the main practice, but if anyone happens to know I would be very grateful.
Have you registered on Norbunet? It is all there:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... utput=html
Générosité de l’invisible.
Notre gratitude est infinie.
Le critère est l’hospitalité.

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climb-up
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by climb-up »

Oh wow, thank you. I didn't know about that.

This actually sparks a follow up question, if you or anyone else know.
Both for that webcast and the one before it (both of which I attended) list the lung of the kalachakra mantra being given from terma of Changchub Dorje, but one lists this as being an anti yoga practice and one lists it as being an anuyoga practice.

In the webcast resource page there are two kalachakra sadhanas, one called an ant practice and one called an anti practice.

Does anyone know which one of these sadhanas is the terma of Changchub Dorje?
Also, if the "kalachakra mantra" is given, is that the same as permission to do the whole sadhana, or its it different?
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by heart »

climb-up wrote:Oh wow, thank you. I didn't know about that.

This actually sparks a follow up question, if you or anyone else know.
Both for that webcast and the one before it (both of which I attended) list the lung of the kalachakra mantra being given from terma of Changchub Dorje, but one lists this as being an anti yoga practice and one lists it as being an anuyoga practice.

In the webcast resource page there are two kalachakra sadhanas, one called an ant practice and one called an anti practice.

Does anyone know which one of these sadhanas is the terma of Changchub Dorje?
Also, if the "kalachakra mantra" is given, is that the same as permission to do the whole sadhana, or its it different?
Changchub Dorje's Kalachakra is the Anu yoga, the Longsal is the Ati yoga sadhana. If you want to do the practice you should listen to the teachings when they where given, you should see if you can get the mp3's.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
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"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
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climb-up
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by climb-up »

Thank you for the clarification!
I certainly won't be trying to do the practice with only the printed sadhana if thats what you mean. The webcast only had the lung, so someday I hope to find someone who does this practice and is willing to sit down with me and teach it.

That would be the correct process right?
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by heart »

climb-up wrote:Thank you for the clarification!
I certainly won't be trying to do the practice with only the printed sadhana if thats what you mean. The webcast only had the lung, so someday I hope to find someone who does this practice and is willing to sit down with me and teach it.

That would be the correct process right?
If you can find the original recordings of the webcast where Rinpoche transmitted this the first time (over Christmas and New Year 2014/2015 I think) then you can hear Rinpoches own instructions on these Kalachakra practices (email Dzamling Gar). They look a bit different than other Kalachakra practices also, there are 2 different pictures that where shared during the webcast as well. Send me your email in a messages I will send them to you.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by climb-up »

That would be the best.
I e-mailed them about a year ago and it was not available, I also tried e-mailing shangshung archive, but it was too long ago so it's not availble to buy. :(
I'm holding out hope that at some time either a CD or book, o both, will be available at some point. Also to connect with someone in person, although I am rarely able to make it to my local group.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by cepheidvariable »

Well, I'm back to bother y'all again :)

I had a few questions re: the DC and Dzogchen texts by Dudjom Lingpa.

Having taken DI with Rinpoche, would one be able to study and practice Dudjom Lingpa's texts like Vajra Essence, or Nang Jang, or would one need specific lungs for these? Does the DC ever work with Dudjom Lingpa's canon? Also, is there any substantive difference between the approaches of the DC and those of Dudjom Lingpa when it comes to Dzogchen? I understand if that last one is a question that shouldn't be publicly answered, thought I'd ask just in case.

Thanks in advance.
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ratna
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by ratna »

cepheidvariable wrote:Well, I'm back to bother y'all again :)

I had a few questions re: the DC and Dzogchen texts by Dudjom Lingpa.

Having taken DI with Rinpoche, would one be able to study and practice Dudjom Lingpa's texts like Vajra Essence, or Nang Jang, or would one need specific lungs for these? Does the DC ever work with Dudjom Lingpa's canon? Also, is there any substantive difference between the approaches of the DC and those of Dudjom Lingpa when it comes to Dzogchen? I understand if that last one is a question that shouldn't be publicly answered, thought I'd ask just in case.

Thanks in advance.
Here's Dudjom Lingpa's reincarnation, Sangye Pema Shepa Rinpoche, discussing the prerequisites for studying and practicing the Nang Jang and other revelatons of Dudjom Lingpa (bold formatting mine):
Dudjom Yangsi Rinpoche wrote:These texts for example, the Nang-jang and the Nelug Rangjung probably within the entire body of collected works of Dudjom Lingpa are the most profound, the most important and also we could say the most volatile or the most powerful really, within the entire collected works. So therefore it’s my opinion that in order to practice these, it is important to actually complete the full practice of the preliminary practices of Ngöndro and also on top of that to fully engage in the main practices of Lama, Yidam, Khadro (The Three Roots) - accomplishment practices - and to fully go through all of those stages. And of course now - it is the times these days - that of course as there is quite easy access to these kind of texts - they have been printed and distributed - so I don’t think there is any harm in looking at it, studying it and so on. As these are the degenerate times and in this kind of situation that we have, since they are available, then I think there is no harm to study them.
Here's the rest of the interview.

However, I will also note that it would seem to be against ChNN's advice to read teachings on Thögal, such as those contained in the Vajra Essence, without having received the appropriate transmission and instruction.

R
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by TaTa »

Im looking for musical notation of Song of Vajra. Anyone can help?
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Tārāmitra
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Tārāmitra »

So I am contemplating the possibility of turning to Namkhai Norbu in order to enter the Dzogchen path. Is there anyone here who know him personally and is able to testify as to his pure, selfless, and compassionate conduct? I have never come across any critique of Rinpoche’s conduct (nor have I actively searched for it), but I have heard enough about other prominent Vajrayāna masters so as to be very careful to closely scrutinise a prospective master before becoming his student, a caution which is advised by various Tantric sources. I don't think it is to be taken lightly. This may not be the way to gain certitude in this regard, as the testimony of disciples is not always the most reliable source, and by the end of the day I'll have to rely upon my own intuition supported by observations, but I’ll start by throwing this out there and see what I can learn from it. So is Rinpoche’s conduct consistently and in easily recognizable essence and appearance in conformity to basic Buddhist Sila, or does he engage much in the profoundly paradoxical “grey zone” of the sort of “crazy wisdom” behaviour that may or may not be actual wisdom and often turns out not to have been demonstrably skilful, as in the case of good ol’ Trungpa Rinpoche (whose insights I still greatly appreciate)? What is Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche’s position?

Respectful greetings to all of you. I hope this inquiry is not inappropriate. :namaste:
“What leads not to disenchantment, to dispassion, to cessation, to calm, to higher knowledge, to enlightenment, to liberation: that I have not declared.”
Buddha Śākyamuni, Teacher of Gods and Men

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Boomerang »

Tārāmitra wrote:So I am contemplating the possibility of turning to Namkhai Norbu in order to enter the Dzogchen path. Is there anyone here who know him personally and is able to testify as to his pure, selfless, and compassionate conduct? I have never come across any critique of Rinpoche’s conduct (nor have I actively searched for it), but I have heard enough about other prominent Vajrayāna masters so as to be very careful to closely scrutinise a prospective master before becoming his student, a caution which is advised by various Tantric sources. I don't think it is to be taken lightly. This may not be the way to gain certitude in this regard, as the testimony of disciples is not always the most reliable source, and by the end of the day I'll have to rely upon my own intuition supported by observations, but I’ll start by throwing this out there and see what I can learn from it. So is Rinpoche’s conduct consistently and in easily recognizable essence and appearance in conformity to basic Buddhist Sila, or does he engage much in the profoundly paradoxical “grey zone” of the sort of “crazy wisdom” behaviour that may or may not be actual wisdom and often turns out not to have been demonstrably skilful, as in the case of good ol’ Trungpa Rinpoche (whose insights I still greatly appreciate)? What is Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche’s position?

Respectful greetings to all of you. I hope this inquiry is not inappropriate. :namaste:
If you want a small glimpse into Rinpoche's life, you may be interested in watching the documentary made about his son.

http://myreincarnationfilm.com/
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by jet.urgyen »

Tārāmitra wrote:So I am contemplating the possibility of turning to Namkhai Norbu in order to enter the Dzogchen path. Is there anyone here who know him personally and is able to testify as to his pure, selfless, and compassionate conduct? I have never come across any critique of Rinpoche’s conduct (nor have I actively searched for it), but I have heard enough about other prominent Vajrayāna masters so as to be very careful to closely scrutinise a prospective master before becoming his student, a caution which is advised by various Tantric sources. I don't think it is to be taken lightly. This may not be the way to gain certitude in this regard, as the testimony of disciples is not always the most reliable source, and by the end of the day I'll have to rely upon my own intuition supported by observations, but I’ll start by throwing this out there and see what I can learn from it. So is Rinpoche’s conduct consistently and in easily recognizable essence and appearance in conformity to basic Buddhist Sila, or does he engage much in the profoundly paradoxical “grey zone” of the sort of “crazy wisdom” behaviour that may or may not be actual wisdom and often turns out not to have been demonstrably skilful, as in the case of good ol’ Trungpa Rinpoche (whose insights I still greatly appreciate)? What is Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche’s position?

Respectful greetings to all of you. I hope this inquiry is not inappropriate. :namaste:
i'm very sceptical and see a Dharma teachers with drastic criteria and "jeweller's eyeglass", and in this way i never heard or seein of any misbehaviour on ChNN's conduct nor any filtration in his system of teaching.

Now, you must understand that he is a Rigdzin, a Dzogchen master just like Guru Padmasambhava, and that you cannot learn dzogchen in an intelectual way; here vajrayana practices are a "mean-to" but not an end; and that here are no rules nor "dzogchen monks".

The only samaya is live normal life in contemplation.

Also you must know that Direct Introduction is not an initiation, but a precious help intended for you to have a very precise insight.

this is how i see it, after years of practice and experience.
there is nothing inappropriate in your inquiry by the way.
Best regards.
true dharma is inexpressible.

The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by heart »

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Also you must know that Direct Introduction is not an initiation, but a precious help intended for you to have a very precise insight.
Direct introduction is actually the quintessential empowerment.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Malcolm »

Tārāmitra wrote:So is Rinpoche’s conduct consistently and in easily recognizable essence and appearance in conformity to basic Buddhist Sila, or does he engage much in the profoundly paradoxical “grey zone” of the sort of “crazy wisdom” behaviour that may or may not be actual wisdom and often turns out not to have been demonstrably skilful, as in the case of good ol’ Trungpa Rinpoche (whose insights I still greatly appreciate)? What is Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche’s position?
Rinpoche places no emphasis at all on śīla. He also is not a "crazy" wisdom kind of guy.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Tārāmitra »

Thank you for your helpful replies. :namaste:
Rinpoche places no emphasis at all on śīla. He also is not a "crazy" wisdom kind of guy.
Very well. But as for śīla, does this mean Rinpoche instructs Western disciples in Dzogchen without first (or at the same time) making sure they are established in basic Sutra Buddhism? I think it’s highly crucial that modern westerners interested in pursuing a profound esoteric path like Atiyoga first master basic śīla and the like. For example, can one who habitually lies to his fellow men ever become the Truth? Obviously not. Personally I am of the opinion that Dzogchen should be supported by a firm Buddhist platform and shouldn't be taught on its own to seekers not established in fundamental Dharma.
Last edited by Tārāmitra on Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“What leads not to disenchantment, to dispassion, to cessation, to calm, to higher knowledge, to enlightenment, to liberation: that I have not declared.”
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Könchok Thrinley »

Tārāmitra wrote:Thank you for your helpful replies. :namaste:
Rinpoche places no emphasis at all on śīla. He also is not a "crazy" wisdom kind of guy.
Very well. But as for śīla, does this mean Rinpoche instructs Western disciples in Dzogchen without first (or at the same time) making sure they are established in basic Sutra Buddhism? I think it’s highly crucial that modern westerners interested in pursuing a profound esoteric path like Atiyoga first master basic śīla and the like. For example, can one who habitually lies to his fellow men ever become the Truth? Obviously not.

Rinpoche teaches according to Garab Dorje's statements: 1st is Direct introduction. His students are mostly free to do how they feel. You are responsible for your morals not Rinpoche. Plus morals vary throughout the time and space and good dzogchen practitioner doesnt need moral code as he is aware in his life and knows what to do. :) Those are my 2cents and maybe I am wrong.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

For those who do virtuous actions,
goodness is what comes to pass.
For those who do non-virtuous actions,
that becomes suffering indeed.

- Arya Sanghata Sutra
Malcolm
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Malcolm »

Tārāmitra wrote:Thank you for your helpful replies. :namaste:
Rinpoche places no emphasis at all on śīla. He also is not a "crazy" wisdom kind of guy.
Very well. But as for śīla, does this mean Rinpoche instructs Western disciples in Dzogchen without first (or at the same time) making sure they are established in basic Sutra Buddhism?
What do you mean by established? When he begins a retreat, he always spends an hour or so discussing the essential differences between the paths of renunciation (Hinayāna and common Mahāyāna), the paths of transformation (Vajrayāna), and the path of self-liberation (Dzogchen/Mahāmudra).


I think it’s highly crucial that modern westerners interested in pursuing a profound esoteric path like Atiyoga first master basic śīla and the like. For example, can one who habitually lies to his fellow men ever become the Truth? Obviously not.
If one has to rely on a vow to be honest, one is not very honest.

Norbu Rinpoche does not require anyone to take vows, or undergo formal refuge, and so on.

You will just have to find out for yourself whether you can overcome your prejudices and find benefit from Rinpoche's teachings.
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Tārāmitra
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Tārāmitra »

Miroku wrote:
Tārāmitra wrote:Thank you for your helpful replies. :namaste:
Rinpoche places no emphasis at all on śīla. He also is not a "crazy" wisdom kind of guy.
Very well. But as for śīla, does this mean Rinpoche instructs Western disciples in Dzogchen without first (or at the same time) making sure they are established in basic Sutra Buddhism? I think it’s highly crucial that modern westerners interested in pursuing a profound esoteric path like Atiyoga first master basic śīla and the like. For example, can one who habitually lies to his fellow men ever become the Truth? Obviously not.

Rinpoche teaches according to Garab Dorje's statements: 1st is Direct introduction. His students are mostly free to do how they feel. You are responsible for your morals not Rinpoche. Plus morals vary throughout the time and space and good dzogchen practitioner doesnt need moral code as he is aware in his life and knows what to do. :) Those are my 2cents and maybe I am wrong.
Thank you for your reply!

I edited my post and added this while you were replying to it:
Personally I am of the opinion that Dzogchen should be supported by a firm Buddhist platform and shouldn't be taught on its own to seekers not established in fundamental Dharma.
So that is what I consider the most solid spiritual grounding and a safe Middle Way. To leave the question of śīla up to the disciples seems dangerous. Will not Rinpoche suffer certain consequences if some of his disciples go down wrong paths which they justify to themselves through Dzogchen, and end up in hell-states? This risk exists. But that said, it is perhaps not my ‘business’ to worry about it. If I go to Rinpoche, I would then rely on him solely for Dzogchen, and relying on others for other aspects of Buddhism, as I personally intend to build on basic Buddhism and Bodhisattvayana and some Tantra and crown that body with Atiyoga.
“What leads not to disenchantment, to dispassion, to cessation, to calm, to higher knowledge, to enlightenment, to liberation: that I have not declared.”
Buddha Śākyamuni, Teacher of Gods and Men

{Formerly known as Vidyavajra}
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