Dzogchen and other traditions

White Lotus
Posts: 1333
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:56 pm

Re: Dzogchen and other traditions

Post by White Lotus »

I am Braham, Shiva and Vishnu, Indira and Ishvara, I am the fundamental nature of all things, the only nature, i have gone beyond all kinds of atman. i am emptiness. if you take refuge in me you will be dissapointed. walk on with my insignificant blessing.

best wishes, Tom.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.
daelm
Posts: 486
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:49 pm

Re: Dzogchen and other traditions

Post by daelm »

White Lotus wrote:I am Braham, Shiva and Vishnu, Indira and Ishvara, I am the fundamental nature of all things, the only nature, i have gone beyond all kinds of atman. i am emptiness. if you take refuge in me you will be dissapointed. walk on with my insignificant blessing.

best wishes, Tom.

good to know.

thanks.
dakini_boi
Posts: 683
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:02 am

Re: Dzogchen and other traditions

Post by dakini_boi »

Namdrol wrote:
AilurusFulgens wrote:
Why am I bringing this up? Because of the following central questions:

a.) Where does Dzogchen practised by a person who is neither Buddhist, nor accepts the doctrine of anatman or pratityasamutpada (dependent origination) lead to according to traditional textual sources and living oral tradition? Do such people simply get stuck in formless blissful realms or are they simply wasting their time or do they go to Vajra hells....?
At best, rebirth in a nirmanakāya buddhafield.

N
Why in this case, a nirmanakaya buddhafield as opposed to dharmakaya or sambhogakaya?
Malcolm
Posts: 42974
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Dzogchen and other traditions

Post by Malcolm »

dakini_boi wrote:
Namdrol wrote:
AilurusFulgens wrote:
Why am I bringing this up? Because of the following central questions:

a.) Where does Dzogchen practised by a person who is neither Buddhist, nor accepts the doctrine of anatman or pratityasamutpada (dependent origination) lead to according to traditional textual sources and living oral tradition? Do such people simply get stuck in formless blissful realms or are they simply wasting their time or do they go to Vajra hells....?
At best, rebirth in a nirmanakāya buddhafield.

N
Why in this case, a nirmanakaya buddhafield as opposed to dharmakaya or sambhogakaya?
Because ordinary people can see a nirmankāya, but cannot see a Sambhogakāya, much less the Dharmakāya.

N
User avatar
kalden yungdrung
Posts: 4606
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:40 pm

Re: Dzogchen and other traditions

Post by kalden yungdrung »

Namdrol wrote:
Because ordinary people can see a nirmankāya, but cannot see a Sambhogakāya, much less the Dharmakāya.
N.
Tashi delek,

- What are here ordinary and then following not ordinary people?

Mutsog Marro
KY
The best meditation is no meditation
Malcolm
Posts: 42974
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Dzogchen and other traditions

Post by Malcolm »

kalden yungdrung wrote:
Namdrol wrote:
Because ordinary people can see a nirmankāya, but cannot see a Sambhogakāya, much less the Dharmakāya.
N.
Tashi delek,

- What are here ordinary and then following not ordinary people?

Mutsog Marro
KY

People below the path of seeing. Regular people.
User avatar
kalden yungdrung
Posts: 4606
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:40 pm

Re: Dzogchen and other traditions

Post by kalden yungdrung »

Namdrol wrote:
kalden yungdrung wrote:
Namdrol wrote:
Because ordinary people can see a nirmankāya, but cannot see a Sambhogakāya, much less the Dharmakāya.
N.
Tashi delek,

- What are here ordinary and then following not ordinary people?

Mutsog Marro
KY

People below the path of seeing. Regular people.

Tashi delek,

Thanks for the replies.

- How do we call here the paths of those people who are dwelling below the path of seeing? Tib / Sanskr.
- How do you call the path of seeing? Tib / Sanskr.

Best wishes

Mutsog Marro
KY
The best meditation is no meditation
Malcolm
Posts: 42974
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Dzogchen and other traditions

Post by Malcolm »

kalden yungdrung wrote:
- How do we call here the paths of those people who are dwelling below the path of seeing? Tib / Sanskr.
- How do you call the path of seeing? Tib / Sanskr.
Worldly paths:
Sambhara mārga; tshogs lam; path of accumulation.
Prayoga mārga; sbyor lam; path of application/preparation.

Transcendent paths:
Darśana mārga; mthong lam; path of seeing
Bhavana mārga; sgom lam; path of cultivation
Aśaikṣa marga; mi slop pa'i lam; path of no further training (buddhahood)
User avatar
Paul
Posts: 1726
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:12 pm

Re: Dzogchen and other traditions

Post by Paul »

Namdrol wrote:
kalden yungdrung wrote:
- How do we call here the paths of those people who are dwelling below the path of seeing? Tib / Sanskr.
- How do you call the path of seeing? Tib / Sanskr.
Worldly paths:
Sambhara mārga; tshogs lam; path of accumulation.
Prayoga mārga; sbyor lam; path of application/preparation.

Transcendent paths:
Darśana mārga; mthong lam; path of seeing
Bhavana mārga; sgom lam; path of cultivation
Aśaikṣa marga; mi slop pa'i lam; path of no further training (buddhahood)
How do the Dzogchen and Mahamudra path(s) fit with these framework?
Look at the unfathomable spinelessness of man: all the means he's been given to stay alert he uses, in the end, to ornament his sleep. – Rene Daumal
the modern mind has become so limited and single-visioned that it has lost touch with normal perception - John Michell
Malcolm
Posts: 42974
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Dzogchen and other traditions

Post by Malcolm »

Hayagriva wrote:
Namdrol wrote:
kalden yungdrung wrote:
- How do we call here the paths of those people who are dwelling below the path of seeing? Tib / Sanskr.
- How do you call the path of seeing? Tib / Sanskr.
Worldly paths:
Sambhara mārga; tshogs lam; path of accumulation.
Prayoga mārga; sbyor lam; path of application/preparation.

Transcendent paths:
Darśana mārga; mthong lam; path of seeing
Bhavana mārga; sgom lam; path of cultivation
Aśaikṣa marga; mi slop pa'i lam; path of no further training (buddhahood)
There are various schemes -- for the mahamudra scheme you can look in the mahamudra threads here. For Dzogchen, third vision of thögal = path of seeing.



How do the Dzogchen and Mahamudra path(s) fit with these framework?
Post Reply

Return to “Dzogchen”