Dzogchen and other traditions
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Re: Dzogchen and other traditions
I am Braham, Shiva and Vishnu, Indira and Ishvara, I am the fundamental nature of all things, the only nature, i have gone beyond all kinds of atman. i am emptiness. if you take refuge in me you will be dissapointed. walk on with my insignificant blessing.
best wishes, Tom.
best wishes, Tom.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.
Re: Dzogchen and other traditions
White Lotus wrote:I am Braham, Shiva and Vishnu, Indira and Ishvara, I am the fundamental nature of all things, the only nature, i have gone beyond all kinds of atman. i am emptiness. if you take refuge in me you will be dissapointed. walk on with my insignificant blessing.
best wishes, Tom.
good to know.
thanks.
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Re: Dzogchen and other traditions
Why in this case, a nirmanakaya buddhafield as opposed to dharmakaya or sambhogakaya?Namdrol wrote:At best, rebirth in a nirmanakāya buddhafield.AilurusFulgens wrote:
Why am I bringing this up? Because of the following central questions:
a.) Where does Dzogchen practised by a person who is neither Buddhist, nor accepts the doctrine of anatman or pratityasamutpada (dependent origination) lead to according to traditional textual sources and living oral tradition? Do such people simply get stuck in formless blissful realms or are they simply wasting their time or do they go to Vajra hells....?
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Re: Dzogchen and other traditions
Because ordinary people can see a nirmankāya, but cannot see a Sambhogakāya, much less the Dharmakāya.dakini_boi wrote:Why in this case, a nirmanakaya buddhafield as opposed to dharmakaya or sambhogakaya?Namdrol wrote:At best, rebirth in a nirmanakāya buddhafield.AilurusFulgens wrote:
Why am I bringing this up? Because of the following central questions:
a.) Where does Dzogchen practised by a person who is neither Buddhist, nor accepts the doctrine of anatman or pratityasamutpada (dependent origination) lead to according to traditional textual sources and living oral tradition? Do such people simply get stuck in formless blissful realms or are they simply wasting their time or do they go to Vajra hells....?
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- kalden yungdrung
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Re: Dzogchen and other traditions
Tashi delek,Namdrol wrote:
Because ordinary people can see a nirmankāya, but cannot see a Sambhogakāya, much less the Dharmakāya.
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- What are here ordinary and then following not ordinary people?
Mutsog Marro
KY
The best meditation is no meditation
Re: Dzogchen and other traditions
kalden yungdrung wrote:Tashi delek,Namdrol wrote:
Because ordinary people can see a nirmankāya, but cannot see a Sambhogakāya, much less the Dharmakāya.
N.
- What are here ordinary and then following not ordinary people?
Mutsog Marro
KY
People below the path of seeing. Regular people.
- kalden yungdrung
- Posts: 4606
- Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:40 pm
Re: Dzogchen and other traditions
Namdrol wrote:kalden yungdrung wrote:Tashi delek,Namdrol wrote:
Because ordinary people can see a nirmankāya, but cannot see a Sambhogakāya, much less the Dharmakāya.
N.
- What are here ordinary and then following not ordinary people?
Mutsog Marro
KY
People below the path of seeing. Regular people.
Tashi delek,
Thanks for the replies.
- How do we call here the paths of those people who are dwelling below the path of seeing? Tib / Sanskr.
- How do you call the path of seeing? Tib / Sanskr.
Best wishes
Mutsog Marro
KY
The best meditation is no meditation
Re: Dzogchen and other traditions
Worldly paths:kalden yungdrung wrote:
- How do we call here the paths of those people who are dwelling below the path of seeing? Tib / Sanskr.
- How do you call the path of seeing? Tib / Sanskr.
Sambhara mārga; tshogs lam; path of accumulation.
Prayoga mārga; sbyor lam; path of application/preparation.
Transcendent paths:
Darśana mārga; mthong lam; path of seeing
Bhavana mārga; sgom lam; path of cultivation
Aśaikṣa marga; mi slop pa'i lam; path of no further training (buddhahood)
Re: Dzogchen and other traditions
How do the Dzogchen and Mahamudra path(s) fit with these framework?Namdrol wrote:Worldly paths:kalden yungdrung wrote:
- How do we call here the paths of those people who are dwelling below the path of seeing? Tib / Sanskr.
- How do you call the path of seeing? Tib / Sanskr.
Sambhara mārga; tshogs lam; path of accumulation.
Prayoga mārga; sbyor lam; path of application/preparation.
Transcendent paths:
Darśana mārga; mthong lam; path of seeing
Bhavana mārga; sgom lam; path of cultivation
Aśaikṣa marga; mi slop pa'i lam; path of no further training (buddhahood)
Look at the unfathomable spinelessness of man: all the means he's been given to stay alert he uses, in the end, to ornament his sleep. – Rene Daumal
the modern mind has become so limited and single-visioned that it has lost touch with normal perception - John Michell
the modern mind has become so limited and single-visioned that it has lost touch with normal perception - John Michell
Re: Dzogchen and other traditions
Hayagriva wrote:There are various schemes -- for the mahamudra scheme you can look in the mahamudra threads here. For Dzogchen, third vision of thögal = path of seeing.Namdrol wrote:Worldly paths:kalden yungdrung wrote:
- How do we call here the paths of those people who are dwelling below the path of seeing? Tib / Sanskr.
- How do you call the path of seeing? Tib / Sanskr.
Sambhara mārga; tshogs lam; path of accumulation.
Prayoga mārga; sbyor lam; path of application/preparation.
Transcendent paths:
Darśana mārga; mthong lam; path of seeing
Bhavana mārga; sgom lam; path of cultivation
Aśaikṣa marga; mi slop pa'i lam; path of no further training (buddhahood)
How do the Dzogchen and Mahamudra path(s) fit with these framework?