Yeah, Dzogchen is confusing

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Re: Yeah, Dzogchen is confusing

Postby Mr. G » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:14 pm

Hi padma,

padma norbu wrote:The more time goes by, the less faith I have that I will ever achieve whatever it is I'm supposed to get from this whole thing.


Cessation/Integration of afflictions which in a very general and practical sense will allow you to be sincerely happy...not a contrived happiness. With that, you help others. I know you weren't looking to have visions of flying unicorns or smurfs.

Or, wait, I mean it seems like an utter load of bollocks that the key to ultimate, infinite, extreme power over all reality is in this little teensy tiny heart drop of mine if I just find a way to crack it open and look at it right.
.

Of all the things you mentioned, this is the one I find least interesting. What Buddhist tradition (with the exception of certain Pure Land traditions) isn't based on insight in order to acquire enlightenment? In Dzogchen, the body is the focus.

. whether it's true or not, one thing I'm definitely sure of: one could easily waste an entire lifetime in sitting contemplation and wind up with nothing but a calloused ass. I'm turning into a pretty calloused ass myself, as you can see.

One could easily argue it is just another opiate of the masses.


OK. But is this a criticism of Dzogchen? This can be a criticism of all religous and spiritual traditions.

I just don't see it going anywhere. My practice isn't getting any better and I have no reason to believe it ever will.


You were jumping a bit all over the place. Is your concern that your practice isn't going well? Your issues with Dzogchen theory and cosmology?

But, if it does, theoretically, result in Buddhahood, then you no longer exist in the way you thought you did, but spontaneously manifest for the benefit of beings as a being which once again needs to awaken to Buddhahood. Seems a bit silly, doesn't it?


A Mahayana Buddhist practices to assist all sentient beings. What were you expecting from Mahayana Buddhism?

And then, like, doesn't everything get destroyed in fire after a few bazillion kalpas anyway?

What is the point of reawakening Buddhahood if you just have to do it over and over again and everything will be destroyed, anyway? This is the same argument used against samsara: what is the point of struggling to be successful in samsara when we know that all happiness is transitory and wears off and in the end, you will lose everything?


You're going to die probably before you reach 100 years of age. Does that mean you act like an ass to your loved ones? Your friends? Why bother waking up in the morning? This seems more like an existential problem.

Also, if we see our guru as the Buddha, doesn't that mean we should really believe it?


For tantra yes, but you don't have to do this in Dzogchen. Forcing yourself to see teachers or people as Buddhas isn't practical. It's by practice that it unfolds. If it hasn't unfolded, don't try to do it artificially.

Somehow, this is all going to make you a Buddha. Somehow. Don't ask how because that is utterly inexplicable


What do mean? In a very general sense you are, or can use yogic methods of Dzogchen to overcome/integrate afflictions. Methods like the purification of 6 lokas as an example.

just proceed on faith even though it really makes no sense


What Dzogchenpa believes this? What Buddhist believes this? No one who has been a Buddhist for a while relies on blind faith.

Furthermore, if you consider that I began exploring religious and esoteric ideas at the age of about 15, one could try to make the case that I am merely a dilettante (incorrectly), but the fact is I have been refining my worldview in this manner for 18 years now.


Take a number and get on line with everyone else on this forum. :tongue:
    How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
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Re: Yeah, Dzogchen is confusing

Postby Mr. G » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:25 pm

padma norbu wrote:Actually, the guy who threw the mala in the toilet was doing Tara practice (or some female deity) and when he threw it in the toilet, he was thoroughly discouraged. When he did this, suddenly the deity appeared and told him to wash it off with perfumed water (or something) and she would teach him personally. This tale is from a recent book I was reading.



This was Virupa
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    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
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Re: Yeah, Dzogchen is confusing

Postby padma norbu » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:32 pm

Dechen Norbu wrote:
The world has become a place of (in sequential order from hinayana to dzogchen): look but don't touch, touch but don't feel, feel but don't care, care but don't cling, correct your desire-passions but don't correct too much or you have strayed from the path. Rest in the present moment undistracted by thoughts, but of course you can think, too, because in fact if you don't, then something is wrong...

This shows a lot of confusion, friend.

Take another look at the thread's subject title.

:smile:

It's also a very flippant description of my development and there are various ways to read what I've written. I know because I tried to find the right words and gave up because it was taking too long.

Dechen Norbu wrote:Remaining in the recognition of instant presence all the time is not that easy.


Right. Because... remember when I said it was? Oh, right. I didn't. :smile:

Dechen Norbu wrote:We are not used to it in the slightest. You should go by steps. First the practice until you recognize it, then you extend it to harder and harder activities. There's a method to do this.

Why do you seem to presume I am oblivious to this? I mean, what is it that you think I've been doing all this time, anyway?

Dechen Norbu wrote:While you can't, be mindful. Thoughts are not enemies. Getting swept by them is the problem. Imagine you want to do something. Suddenly a stream of thoughts carries you away to the point of you forgetting what you were doing. Sometimes people die because of this! It's like having amnesia strokes several times a day. We don't find it bizarre because we got used to it.


I know all this.

Dechen Norbu wrote:
Somehow, this is all going to make you a Buddha. Somehow. Don't ask how because that is utterly inexplicable, just proceed on faith even though it really makes no sense because it is beyond conceptual limitation despite what Buddha said about accepting things only because you have decided they are reasonable with your own mind. Seems like a series of exercises to discombobulate your brain, really, and accomplish nothing except detachment with a pleasant disposition. One could easily argue it is just another opiate of the masses. This one is so powerful people are actually okay with sitting in cold caves in the himalayas with nothing but some robes and a mala.

You don't know how that will make you a Buddha because you don't see the practice working.

That's the point of this thread, isn't it?

Dechen Norbu wrote:So you don't know where you're coming from neither where you're heading. What you describe above has nothing to do with the practice of Buddhadharma.

Yes it does. Practice is rooted in faith.
Dechen Norbu wrote:You need to find a way to spend some time with a teacher, senior students and so on. Online people can't help you that much. You are in need of a dose of flesh and blood Dharma. :lol:

Again, you presume I have not done this. What do you think I've been doing, anyway? Tell me about how you envision me, tell me all about me, so that I can see where YOU are coming from about ME. That seems like a good first step. If you would be a senior student, then you would be a good example of why working with senior students does not do anything for me.
Dechen Norbu wrote:
Did I make my case well enough or shall I continue? I'm not saying I am a disbeliever, just playing devil's advocate here because I would like someone to point out where I am so unbelievably wrong that I must be BLIND not to see it (either in my first post or this one).

No friend, you made your case very well. And it's great that you recognize those obstacles. Now focus in overcoming them.
The only interest in study for you should be to clear doubts about practice.
You need to get closer to the teacher, senior students, a real sangha. Share the space with flesh and bone practitioners instead of only a virtual sangha.
Don't expect to get further based only on intellectual knowledge. It's time to start developing insight through correct and consistent practice.

All I said is just my opinion based on my experience. Seems to me to be what you need right now.
You should definitively seek advice from a qualified teacher, I think. Go to a retreat or a teaching and linger for a while. For some this is important. :smile:

Best wishes.


I. HAVE. DONE. THIS. I don't need to hear this same advice again and again.

As for your repeated exhortations for me to practice, it's funny that I started out saying that I haven't accomplished anything and don't see any reason to believe I will and your response is to practice. Believe me, I know all the advice, I've heard it and read it a bunch of times. I know that seasoned practitioners need to go back to shine, I know all the arguments against intellectualization and that recognition is beyond concepts and I know that maintaining the view is not easy. I've just said as much above.

I am fully aware of the irony or whatever it is... Chagdud Tulku famously said simple "keep going" and Namkhai Norbu says "do your best" and everyone says the most important thing is to "never give up," etc. Well, I'm throwing my mala in the toilet.
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
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Re: Yeah, Dzogchen is confusing

Postby padma norbu » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:55 pm

Mr. G wrote:Of all the things you mentioned, this is the one I find least interesting. What Buddhist tradition (with the exception of certain Pure Land traditions) isn't based on insight in order to acquire enlightenment? In Dzogchen, the body is the focus.


Should I split my various feelings into various categories here on the board? This thread is about Dzogchen and Buddhism BOTH or Dzogchen as it relates to Buddhism in my experience and consideration.

Mr. G wrote:
. whether it's true or not, one thing I'm definitely sure of: one could easily waste an entire lifetime in sitting contemplation and wind up with nothing but a calloused ass. I'm turning into a pretty calloused ass myself, as you can see.

One could easily argue it is just another opiate of the masses.


OK. But is this a criticism of Dzogchen? This can be a criticism of all religous and spiritual traditions.

Yeah that was my point. I wasn't singling out Dzogchen. I only said it was perhaps a more powerful opiate than the others because it's powerful enough that people are content to sit in cold caves with nothing but some rags, a mala and maybe some nettles for food.
Mr. G wrote:
I just don't see it going anywhere. My practice isn't getting any better and I have no reason to believe it ever will.


You were jumping a bit all over the place. Is your concern that your practice isn't going well? Your issues with Dzogchen theory and cosmology?


Can't I have multiple concerns? My practice yields mostly no results and this has resulted in my considering more carefully (scrutinizing, you might say) the whole thing.

Mr. G wrote:
But, if it does, theoretically, result in Buddhahood, then you no longer exist in the way you thought you did, but spontaneously manifest for the benefit of beings as a being which once again needs to awaken to Buddhahood. Seems a bit silly, doesn't it?


A Mahayana Buddhist practices to assist all sentient beings. What were you expecting from Mahayana Buddhism?


The point is that with each incarnation to help all sentient beings, the incarnation itself must re-train, re-learn and re-awaken. I never thought of this before. It seems quite stupid.

Mr. G wrote:You're going to die probably before you reach 100 years of age. Does that mean you act like an ass to your loved ones? Your friends? Why bother waking up in the morning? This seems more like an existential problem.


Yes, it is. There is a fork in the road: either I can spend a few billion kalpas continually trying to become Buddha until everything is destroyed or I can just spend about 100 years trying to enjoy my life until I am destroyed.

Mr. G wrote:
Also, if we see our guru as the Buddha, doesn't that mean we should really believe it?


For tantra yes, but you don't have to do this in Dzogchen.


It's not about whether I HAVE to or not, it is examining the theory in relation to the point previously made that even when one becomes a Buddha, that is not the end of becoming Buddha since we have new incarnations (manifestations of the Buddha) which must re-learn, re-train and re-awaken to become Buddha, too.

Mr. G wrote:
just proceed on faith even though it really makes no sense


What Dzogchenpa believes this? What Buddhist believes this? No one who has been a Buddhist for a while relies on blind faith.


I didn't use the term "blind faith."
Mr. G wrote:
Furthermore, if you consider that I began exploring religious and esoteric ideas at the age of about 15, one could try to make the case that I am merely a dilettante (incorrectly), but the fact is I have been refining my worldview in this manner for 18 years now.


Take a number and get on line with everyone else on this forum. :tongue:

Why this comment? Did it appear I was being lofty and self-important to you? I wasn't. I mentioned that I, like many others I know, found Dzogchen last after a long search. That in itself implies "take a number and get in line."
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
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Re: Yeah, Dzogchen is confusing

Postby padma norbu » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:01 pm

btw, I was joking about throwing the mala in the toilet. Just venting and grappling with some shi-yot, per usual. I don't know why I bother, though, really. I already know everything, apparently, because I never hear anything new. :: pats self on back :: :: is know-it-all :: :toilet:
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Re: Yeah, Dzogchen is confusing

Postby Virgo » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:02 pm

heart wrote:
Virgo wrote:
Clarence wrote:It worries me when a relative Dzogchen newbie (who claimed earlier to be a Sotapanna) starts giving Dzogchen advice to other newbies. I don't know whether this should be the place for such things. Especially with the certainty that accompanies said advice.

People are generally always worried about something. But I am not concerned.

Kevin


At you level of realization you should try to do something special to test your realization, here is a good example http://chronicleproject.com/stories_19.html

/magnus

I think you are projecting a little bit here heart. Frankly, I don't have much of any realization at all. I am just a practitioner, a normal person. I do, however, know what I am doing to a certain degree... because of my Gurus of course and my dedication to tackle practice. Padma really sounds like he is struggling a bit, so I gave him advice from my heart. It's not a big deal. He can choose to take it or leave as he wishes.

I am just like everybody else, honestly.

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Re: Yeah, Dzogchen is confusing

Postby Malcolm » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:03 pm

padma norbu wrote:Well, I'm throwing my mala in the toilet.


Who needs a mala?
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
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Re: Yeah, Dzogchen is confusing

Postby Malcolm » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:06 pm

padma norbu wrote:btw, I was joking about throwing the mala in the toilet. Just venting and grappling with some shi-yot, per usual. I don't know why I bother, though, really. I already know everything, apparently, because I never hear anything new. :: pats self on back :: :: is know-it-all :: :toilet:



There is a bit of a pun on the word māla and mala in this story. In prakrit, Indians tend to not pay attention to long and short vowels -- so māla means a garland of flowers, but mala means excrement. So he threw his māla in the mala.
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འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

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he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

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Re: Yeah, Dzogchen is confusing

Postby padma norbu » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:12 pm

lol, thanks for point that out, Namdrol.

I think I should change my name to "the grappler"... I wrestle too much. seems to be how my brain is wired.
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Re: Yeah, Dzogchen is confusing

Postby Malcolm » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:16 pm

padma norbu wrote:lol, thanks for point that out, Namdrol.

I think I should change my name to "the grappler"... I wrestle too much. seems to be how my brain is wired.



What you shoud do is learn Tibetan.

N
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Re: Yeah, Dzogchen is confusing

Postby Clarence » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:28 pm

Namdrol-la,

You are allowed to teach Dzogchen. What if someone like Padma came to you with his story, what would you say? Why would he have to learn Tibetan (colloquial or Tibetan)? How would that get rid of his doubts? I know you don't want to teach but I am genuinely curious as Padma isn't the only one with doubt.
The advice to practice more seems not to work perfectly well either as the problem is doubt. Not just doubt about the whole tradition but also doubt about whether the practice is done right. At the same time we hear stories that if the practice is done wrongly, the results will be disastrous. So, the practice more exhortation does not work in this case. At least, that is what I think.

Just curious about your opinion.

Thanks, C
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Re: Yeah, Dzogchen is confusing

Postby Lhug-Pa » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:42 pm

Padma Norbu, when you keep saying that high level Masters who have achieved Buddhahood forget everything and have to do it all over again when the they re-manifest, I don't quite follow. Now I've heard that if we achieve Buddhahood, that we can 'get amnesia' and do it all over again if we choose to. And the reason why a Buddha would choose to start all over and walk the Path again, is because upon completing the Path a second time, one has more knowledge and power to help sentient beings than we would after the first time of completing the Path to Buddhahood. Of course choosing to do it all over again with amnesia comes with the risk of not achieving it again (so it seems that doing this is an option, not a requirement; so we can 'keep our memory' of our first-time Buddhahood achievment as long as we want, if we choose to). Now I don't want to get into this very much; I'm just throwing it out there.

On the other hand, Garab Dorje for example. He debated a whole assembly of Panditas when he was eight years old, and won. So he couldn't have forgotten very much. :idea: ;) This being said, it seems that Buddhas will at times not actually choose to do it all over again and forget everything, but that they instead will choose to appear to do it all over again, knowing all along that it's just a show that serves the purpose of teaching sentient beings with their example. But I don't know exactly how this all works, especially in the context of the Rainbow Body and Light Body.

About being a grappler, that's good. How else did Jacob realize that he Is-Ra-El but by defeating Samael (in the English Bible: "The Angel of the Lord") in a wrestling match.

Anyway, I'm only an ignoramus throwing things out there in hopes that it will help. If I'm not making any sense here, then please disregard my post.
Last edited by Lhug-Pa on Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:07 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Yeah, Dzogchen is confusing

Postby Malcolm » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:45 pm

Clarence wrote:Namdrol-la,

You are allowed to teach Dzogchen. What if someone like Padma came to you with his story, what would you say? Why would he have to learn Tibetan (colloquial or Tibetan)? How would that get rid of his doubts? I know you don't want to teach but I am genuinely curious as Padma isn't the only one with doubt.
The advice to practice more seems not to work perfectly well either as the problem is doubt. Not just doubt about the whole tradition but also doubt about whether the practice is done right. At the same time we hear stories that if the practice is done wrongly, the results will be disastrous. So, the practice more exhortation does not work in this case. At least, that is what I think.

Just curious about your opinion.

Thanks, C


If someone comes to me with doubts, I generally send that person back to their teacher. In Padma's case, he should try and get his hands on ChNN's Upadesha on All-Penetrating Wisdom (ye shes zang thal), Longsal Series Volume three. If he attended the recent webcast, ChNN gave the Longsal transmission of Yeshe Zangthal in the last open retreat, not the lung, but the transmission. This book also contains the Longsal Ngondro for which ChNN gave the lung in the last retreat. So he should have no trouble procuring this text. I personally found this one short text to be something like a key that deepened my understanding of Dzoghen beyond tregchö and unlocked the meaning of many tantras.

BTW, in tregchö, that is it. All you are doing just totaly relaxing in a state of instant presence. It does not make anything better but if you are relaxed, you don't mind, also if things are better, you don't mind. If you are not being relaxed, then you are not understanding the main point of tregchö. So you must learn and apply the four chozhags. Cog (ཅོག) is an ancient Tibetan word that means all. It also means to have leisure. Shag (གཞག) means to let go. So this is why ChNN translates this as total relaxation. There are four points of cogzhag which should be applied together at the same time. It is not hard to learn what this means, as I recall ChNN talked about this in the last retreat.

N
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Re: Yeah, Dzogchen is confusing

Postby Pero » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:48 pm

Mr. G wrote:
Also, if we see our guru as the Buddha, doesn't that mean we should really believe it?


For tantra yes, but you don't have to do this in Dzogchen. Forcing yourself to see teachers or people as Buddhas isn't practical. It's by practice that it unfolds. If it hasn't unfolded, don't try to do it artificially.

Well I'm not sure if that's true but in any case you at least need to have faith that the teacher knows the state of Dzogchen and is able to communicate it to others. But I agree that with practice faith increases.
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Re: Yeah, Dzogchen is confusing

Postby alpha » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:49 pm

There is a very famous western theravada monk whose theaching is very simple and does apply here in the context of being a beginner on the Dzogchen path.
The whole of his teaching revolves around a very simple advice which is
"TRUST IN AWARENESS".

That is all he says.
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Re: Yeah, Dzogchen is confusing

Postby Pero » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:53 pm

Namdrol wrote:In Padma's case, he should try and get his hands on ChNN's Upadesha on All-Penetrating Wisdom (ye shes zang thal), Longsal Series Volume three. If he attended the recent webcast, ChNN gave the Longsal transmission of Yeshe Zangthal in the last open retreat, not the lung, but the transmission.

Ahhh.. I missed this part but in the past he gave it many times (if I'm thinking the right thing, sometimes he says yeshe zangthal and sometimes not). I was never sure if it was related with this text or not.

edit: BTW, it's not necessary to receive the specific lung for the Longsal Ngondro, it is sufficient if you receive the lung for the purification of 6 lokas that Rinpoche usually gives at the end of retreats. I think Sunsimao mentioned this back on E-Sangha but I think I remember Rinpoche himself saying this during a webcast (just before he gave the lung for the ngondro hehe).
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Re: Yeah, Dzogchen is confusing

Postby Clarence » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:59 pm

Thank you N-la. I appreciate you taking the time to answer and hope it helps Padma.
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Re: Yeah, Dzogchen is confusing

Postby Lhug-Pa » Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:23 pm

About the recent webcast, I only attended the first and last day of it; and on the last day I remember Rinpoche giving Lungs for the Six Lokas practice (don't recall Rinpoche saying it was the Longsal version but I'm assuming it was) and also for Longsal preliminaries, which therefore seems that he gave two different Lungs there (one for the Six Lokas practice, and one for Longsal preliminaries in general). But I don't remember him giving the Longsal Empowerment that last day, so I take it I can only do the Longsal preliminaries thus far (or maybe not even that if I missed the Empowerment) ? Does anyone remember which specific day of the recent retreat that Rinpoche gave the actual Longsal Empowerment?
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Re: Yeah, Dzogchen is confusing

Postby Dechen Norbu » Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:59 pm

padma norbu wrote:Take another look at the thread's subject title.

You seem to be locked in a gordian knot. Instead of releasing it, you pull it tighter.


It's also a very flippant description of my development and there are various ways to read what I've written. I know because I tried to find the right words and gave up because it was taking too long.

I think you take yourself too seriously...

Right. Because... remember when I said it was? Oh, right. I didn't. :smile:

You said: "Rest in the present moment undistracted by thoughts, but of course you can think, too, because in fact if you don't, then something is wrong..."
This misses entirely what is meant by resting in instant presence.

Why do you seem to presume I am oblivious to this? I mean, what is it that you think I've been doing all this time, anyway?

Apparently you didn't got it right if there are no results. Perhaps you aren't oblivious to the words, but still are to their practical meaning, their fruition.

I know all this.

You know all this, but haven't realized it. You know it intellectually. There's a big difference between knowing Dzogchen intellectually and actually practicing.

That's the point of this thread, isn't it?

It won't solve your problems. Mainly because of the sort of doubts you show and the lack of progress you refer, you should focus on finding what hindrances are you facing and how you should overcome them. Intellectual diatribes like the ones you've been posting won't solve the problem. It's a very practical thing. But it's up to you.

Yes it does. Practice is rooted in faith.

To a point. My whole practice was built upon confidence, I like to think. Benefit of the doubt due to intuition first. That "sounds right" sort of stuff. No worries about highly metaphysical/ transcendental stuff first. You seem to have a more or less graps of the basics. Yet, practice isn't building your confidence. So you either practice wrong or don't practice consistently. It won't do any good to keep wondering about things you can't know at this point. Build your house from the basement up, don't start from the roof. You spend a lot of time discussing the results of the practice (like that reawakening Buddhahood thingy). You should be focusing on practice itself. At least that's my opinion.

Again, you presume I have not done this. What do you think I've been doing, anyway? Tell me about how you envision me, tell me all about me, so that I can see where YOU are coming from about ME. That seems like a good first step. If you would be a senior student, then you would be a good example of why working with senior students does not do anything for me.

By senior students I mean people like Namdrol, Adriano, Jim and so on. Not poor me.
But with your attitude, I'm not sure that's gonna work either...

I. HAVE. DONE. THIS. I don't need to hear this same advice again and again.

I practiced karate for many years. At the beginning I didn't understand why my sensei gave me the same advice so many times.
As for your repeated exhortations for me to practice, it's funny that I started out saying that I haven't accomplished anything and don't see any reason to believe I will and your response is to practice. Believe me, I know all the advice, I've heard it and read it a bunch of times. I know that seasoned practitioners need to go back to shine, I know all the arguments against intellectualization and that recognition is beyond concepts and I know that maintaining the view is not easy. I've just said as much above.

The only possible conclusion is that your practice is flawed. The things you say seem to confirm this. You seem, note the word seem, to have some basic intellectual knowledge, but lack practical insight. Only practice can bring insight. First be sure you are practicing correctly, namely the type and method, and do it. You are right. 5 years isn't much, but it's some time already. If you feel this lost after 5 years, it may get worse after 10, if you manage to get there. You clearly don't know what you are facing and should try to find out. Then overcome it. Practice is not an exercise of mortification. If you aren't getting results, there's a reason. You need to discover it and stop wasting time whining.

I am fully aware of the irony or whatever it is... Chagdud Tulku famously said simple "keep going" and Namkhai Norbu says "do your best" and everyone says the most important thing is to "never give up," etc. Well, I'm throwing my mala in the toilet.

I say stop whining on an internet forum and do something about it. Are you waiting that we solve your problem? Why do you assume we care about your existential crisis? There are people starving out there. You met Dzogchen, so all in all you're a lucky bastard. From my perspective, you should stop complaining and do something more efficacious than sinking in self commiseration.
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Re: Yeah, Dzogchen is confusing

Postby alpha » Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:00 pm

Rinpoche gave Longsal Ngondro transmission in the last day of the webcast after the transmission of the longer invocation of Chod and before Gomadevi transmission.

Rinpoche is actually saying that is giving this transmission at the specific request of one of his students.
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