Capacity for following Dzogchen

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Virgo
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Capacity for following Dzogchen

Postby Virgo » Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:36 am


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pueraeternus
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Re: The Buddhism trend in decline.

Postby pueraeternus » Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:37 am

If you believe certain words, you believe their hidden arguments. When you believe something is right or wrong, true of false, you believe the assumptions in the words which express the arguments. Such assumptions are often full of holes, but remain most precious to the convinced.

- The Open-Ended Proof from The Panoplia Prophetica

JKhedrup
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Re: The Buddhism trend in decline.

Postby JKhedrup » Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:06 am

Virgo,
I appreciate your confidence in the system you are practicing. And I have listened to and enjoyed some of ChNN's teachings. But I find that the strength with which you advocate ONE style of practice, and say those with other opinions "don't know jack", unnecessary.
I spoke with a Western nun from Namdroling recently, she has studied 8.5 of the 9 years of Shedra - she's almost finished (she also finished at the top of her class for several years- others told me this, not her). So clearly, this is not someone who "doesn't know jack".
This nun's opinion is that success in Dzogchen, etc. requires a graduated and steady progression through ngdondro, the common path and the nine yanas. She mentioned Shabkar and others in the Nyingma lineage as examples of the great sacrifices made to achieve the highest realization.
Her lineage, the Palyul, stresses lots of training in the Indian Sutra texts and their commentaries by Nyingma scholars like Mipham.

Admittedly, my knowledge of Nyingma and Dzogchen is quite weak, which is why I sought the opinion of this particular nun.

I also remembered my conversations with the translator of Khamtrul Rinpoche,who is an elderly Dzogchen yogi, a layman, who lives in the Dharamsala area. This particular monk, who is quite learned, told me the 9 yanas are the progression required for all but those who have done the work "in previous lives".

So clearly, there are other opinions. And because someone holds another opinion, does not mean "they don't know jack".

I think that ChNN's presentation is really interesting, and I think it is also valuable especially for his students. I think he tries to encourage busy Westerners with little time for practice as much as he can, which is commendable. But his is one very particular view in a myriad of other views.

Perhaps many of ChNN's students have completed the work in other lives, which is why realization is more immediately attainable for them and why he teaches this way. In this case, I rejoice.

I have also heard in ChNN's teachings a very, I feel, valid criticism of the three year retreat, as many use it as a form of escape and come out with little. But I don't think this is the case for all, and indeed I have met a few monks at the Kagyu monlam who have done between 9-12 years of retreat who I was very impressed with.

But I also rejoice in the practice of those of "dull faculties". ;)

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pueraeternus
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Re: The Buddhism trend in decline.

Postby pueraeternus » Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:44 pm

If you believe certain words, you believe their hidden arguments. When you believe something is right or wrong, true of false, you believe the assumptions in the words which express the arguments. Such assumptions are often full of holes, but remain most precious to the convinced.

- The Open-Ended Proof from The Panoplia Prophetica

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Malcolm
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Re: The Buddhism trend in decline.

Postby Malcolm » Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:43 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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pueraeternus
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Re: The Buddhism trend in decline.

Postby pueraeternus » Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:05 pm

If you believe certain words, you believe their hidden arguments. When you believe something is right or wrong, true of false, you believe the assumptions in the words which express the arguments. Such assumptions are often full of holes, but remain most precious to the convinced.

- The Open-Ended Proof from The Panoplia Prophetica

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Malcolm
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Re: The Buddhism trend in decline.

Postby Malcolm » Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:16 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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pueraeternus
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Re: The Buddhism trend in decline.

Postby pueraeternus » Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:33 pm

If you believe certain words, you believe their hidden arguments. When you believe something is right or wrong, true of false, you believe the assumptions in the words which express the arguments. Such assumptions are often full of holes, but remain most precious to the convinced.

- The Open-Ended Proof from The Panoplia Prophetica

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Malcolm
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Re: The Buddhism trend in decline.

Postby Malcolm » Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:07 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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pueraeternus
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Re: The Buddhism trend in decline.

Postby pueraeternus » Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:49 pm

If you believe certain words, you believe their hidden arguments. When you believe something is right or wrong, true of false, you believe the assumptions in the words which express the arguments. Such assumptions are often full of holes, but remain most precious to the convinced.

- The Open-Ended Proof from The Panoplia Prophetica

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underthetree
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Re: The Buddhism trend in decline.

Postby underthetree » Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:06 pm


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Malcolm
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Re: The Buddhism trend in decline.

Postby Malcolm » Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:56 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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underthetree
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Re: The Buddhism trend in decline.

Postby underthetree » Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:05 pm


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pueraeternus
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Re: The Buddhism trend in decline.

Postby pueraeternus » Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:09 pm

If you believe certain words, you believe their hidden arguments. When you believe something is right or wrong, true of false, you believe the assumptions in the words which express the arguments. Such assumptions are often full of holes, but remain most precious to the convinced.

- The Open-Ended Proof from The Panoplia Prophetica

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Malcolm
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Re: The Buddhism trend in decline.

Postby Malcolm » Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:22 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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heart
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Re: Capacity for following Dzogchen

Postby heart » Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:47 pm

I have understood that the qualities of the Dzogchen practitioners are mentioned quite clearly in the Dzogchen Tantra's themselves. Malcolm, perhaps you could sum up the most important points? Personally I think that before meeting Dzogchen my studies of Dharma made less sense. Everything in sutra and tantra make sense in the light of Dzogchen, but this is perhaps not the experience of everyone in this forum.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

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Malcolm
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Re: Capacity for following Dzogchen

Postby Malcolm » Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:03 pm

Last edited by Malcolm on Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.




འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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pueraeternus
Posts: 817
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:10 pm

Re: The Buddhism trend in decline.

Postby pueraeternus » Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:06 pm

If you believe certain words, you believe their hidden arguments. When you believe something is right or wrong, true of false, you believe the assumptions in the words which express the arguments. Such assumptions are often full of holes, but remain most precious to the convinced.

- The Open-Ended Proof from The Panoplia Prophetica

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pueraeternus
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Re: Capacity for following Dzogchen

Postby pueraeternus » Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:18 pm

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If you believe certain words, you believe their hidden arguments. When you believe something is right or wrong, true of false, you believe the assumptions in the words which express the arguments. Such assumptions are often full of holes, but remain most precious to the convinced.

- The Open-Ended Proof from The Panoplia Prophetica

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Malcolm
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Re: The Buddhism trend in decline.

Postby Malcolm » Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:18 pm

Last edited by Malcolm on Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.




འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa


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