deepbluehum wrote:Username said:Conceptual vehicles' fruits do not really compare to the fruits of Dzogchen's 4 visions/thogal & if they claim so it is false.
I'm not saying that you are wrong. I merely would like to point out that Garchen Rinpoche, a man widely believed to be realized in Dzogchen and Mahamudra, told me the following: The Four Yogas of Mahamudra and the Four Visions of Thogal correspond one to one and both can result in Rainbow Body. He repeated that in his Ganges Mahamudra transmission that you can even achieve Rainbow Body if you want to. In my talk with him he said the different results of leaving relics etc., is to show disciples their commitments. He repeated several times that there is no difference in the results of the lineages. I'm still a bit baffled by his comments. But I'll take it at face value and with a grain of salt. There are many stories of Mahamudra mahasiddhas leaving no remains behind. There is a clear anecdotal history of rainbow bodies in 84 mahasiddha lineage. I also agree that Thogal is a very privileged and special method not like anything else, extremely fast and it is the effortless path beyond cause and effect. That's the most amazing thing to me. The fact that Ayu Khandro spent something like 50 years practicing yangti and didn't achieve rainbow is telling us something. High hopes at this point is not very important.
Yes it was me who posted Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche's book quote here very recently saying the 84 mahasiddhas & 24 of 25 disciples of Padma achieved rainbow body. No point quoting my post & saying that to me the next day as something new! However the 84 mahasiddhas did not mix Vajrayana with Hinduism as you often do openly here nor did they make plans to teach such novel creations to others. In fact Guru Rinpoche warned in his prophecies about people in future mixing Dzogchen with other paths as new ideologies. This is one of the worst things anyone can do. Finally the fact that Ayu Khandro did not manifest rainbow body tells us nothing negative about yangti or her level of realization as students of her students did achieve it.
Jean-Luc Achard, Dzogchen Magyü, The History of the Mother Tantras of the Great Perfection, PDF ed., Khyung-mkhar 2011, pp. 16-23.
Künga Bum was a female tertön and a master of the second Dungtso Repa (who discovered the Yangti Sergyi Druchik cycle). She is said to have reached the Rainbow-Diamond Body (‘ja’ lus rdo rje’i sku) in 1371 or 1383 (there are still uncertainties about her dates).
mutsuk wrote:Pero wrote:Thanks a lot for sharing that!
I wonder if the fifth is Norbu Rinpoche, since he taught trekcho from (a) Yangti Nagpo of CCD last year. Although even if this is one and the same he probably got it from CCD's son and not CCD himself.
Yes I wonder too. I'm pretty sure this must be Norbu Rinpoche but it's a wonder why the author did not mention him. Politics maybe?
I'm just listening to the replay and Rinpoche said that he received it from CCD's son.
arsent wrote:In 1953 Ayu Khandro attained rainbow body.
One of her students is Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche.
In 2004 His Eminence Khempo Yurmed Tinly Rinpoche (Abbot of both Gantay Monastery and Zilnon Kagyeling Monastery-- as well as the Dalai Lama's choice to represent the Nyingma school of Tibetan Buddhism at the United Nations Millennium World Peace Summit) recognized one of his students as the reincarnation of Ayu Khandro. She was born in 1963, and lives in the United States.
Does Norbu Rinpoche acknowledge this recognition?
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