Residing in the ground of being

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lorem
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Re: Residing in the ground of being

Post by lorem »

Yeah "ground of being" actually does sound Christian or Hindu. "foundation" or "base" is better, imo.
I should be meditating.
krodha
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Re: Residing in the ground of being

Post by krodha »

lorem wrote:Yeah "ground of being" actually does sound Christian or Hindu. "foundation" or "base" is better, imo.
It is termed the 'basis' because the species of epistemic insight it denotes serves as the foundation for the path.

Hence; basis [gzhi], path [lam], result ['bras bu].

That is why "ground of being" really makes no sense; it suggests some type of abiding, ontological foundation for existent phenomena. Whereas the basis [gzhi] is simply a conventional term used to convey that one's nature has not been recognized.

Once the basis is recognized it is no longer the 'basis' but instead becomes the 'path' [lam] because the direct, experiential knowledge [rig pa] of that wisdom [ye shes] (the term 'basis' is meant to denote) is what the practitioner familiarizes with and gains confidence in. Then, continuing in the fully realized and unobscured, direct knowledge of that wisdom is the result ['bras bu].
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lorem
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Re: Residing in the ground of being

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asunthatneversets wrote:Once the basis is recognized it is no longer the 'basis' but instead becomes the 'path' [lam] because the direct, experiential knowledge [rig pa] of that wisdom [ye shes] (the term 'basis' is meant to denote) is what the practitioner familiarizes with and gains confidence in. Then, continuing in the fully realized and unobscured, direct knowledge of that wisdom is the result ['bras bu].
Makes sense.

Seems like a step missing. Once the direct introduction is given. Needs to be more like remember, return, familiarize, confidence until you reach a certain stability in rig pa.
I should be meditating.
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dzogchungpa
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Re: Residing in the ground of being

Post by dzogchungpa »

From Rigdzin Shikpo's excellent essay: "The Highest Maha Ati Teachings - Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche in Great Britain":
I asked Rinpoche whether life or existence had any meaning or significance and even why there was anything at all. He quoted from a text by a Kadampa master (a master of one of the oldest schools of Tibetan Buddhism), which stated that “there is no purpose.” He said that to look for a purpose is always to look elsewhere, away from what he called the immediacy of Being. To him, Being was something primordial, timeless, and yet immediately present. Being was not to be found in anything other than the immediacy of experience, yet it had a dimension of vast vision not present in the momentary, passing aspect of experience.

He said that all true creativity and significance came from this immediacy and from nowhere else. There was a natural process of movement within Being, a central expression of fresh creativity that somehow presented the truth and value of Being to itself through the medium of the person.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
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lorem
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Re: Residing in the ground of being

Post by lorem »

What I meant to say was that as practitioners of lower level. Can be pointed out. Even over several days. You familiarize yourself but then busy week, family problems, sick and deeply sleep for days you can lose the view. It can't really go anywhere I'm just talking here but you then need to rest, return, familiarize, confidence. You can't just get direct introduction then remain in rig pa.

Think maybe only wisdom Dakini Niguma and Sukhasiddhi were able to. After very short time.

EDIT i guess rest and return are subsumed in familiarize.
I should be meditating.
krodha
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Re: Residing in the ground of being

Post by krodha »

lorem wrote:You can't just get direct introduction then remain in rig pa.
Right, I don't think anyone suggested that. Only cig car bas are capable of non-regressive buddhahood upon receiving introduction. Most of us are ('bras bu) thod rgal bas or ('bras bu) rim gyis pas which means we traverse the path swiftly or slowly depending on our respective capacities.
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LastLegend
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Re: Residing in the ground of being

Post by LastLegend »

I know nothing about "ground of being." Of my opinion, if we hold on to any ground at all whether in experience or practice, it is going against the teaching of emptiness.
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Re: Residing in the ground of being

Post by muni »

LastLegend wrote:I know nothing about "ground of being." Of my opinion, if we hold on to any ground at all whether in experience or practice, it is going against the teaching of emptiness.
Yes.

Maybe this can help:
Seeing all things as naked, clear and free from obscurations.
http://www.nyingma.com/dzogchen1.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://books.google.be/books?id=4HqLxJR ... ma&f=false" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
muni
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Re: Residing in the ground of being

Post by muni »

I think you hit the nail by the expression of holding on.

From the first text:
In meditation we can see through the illusion of past, present and future - our experience becomes the continuity of nowness. The past is
only an unreliable memory held in the present. The future is only a projection of our present conceptions. The present itself vanishes as
soon as we try to grasp it. So why bother with attempting to establish an illusion of solid ground?
:namaste:
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Rick
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Re: Residing in the ground of being

Post by Rick »

From having attended his retreats, read his books, watched his videos I can say that the only kinda sorta problem I have with Anam Thubten's approach is that he tends to use carrots to inspire his students. Enlightenment is the biggest and juiciest. Ground of being could be another.

For me, focusing on enlightenment, ground of being ... or any other concept/story takes my energy away from the immediacy of the present moment and directs it towards becoming, anticipation, goals, payoffs.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...
Malcolm
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Re: Residing in the ground of being

Post by Malcolm »

rachmiel wrote:From having attended his retreats, read his books, watched his videos I can say that the only kinda sorta problem I have with Anam Thubten's approach is that he tends to use carrots to inspire his students. Enlightenment is the biggest and juiciest. Ground of being could be another.

The basis is our actual state. Buddhahood is the full realization of that state. The path is the slow integration of that state into our experience until we are done.
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LastLegend
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Re: Residing in the ground of being

Post by LastLegend »

rachmiel wrote:From having attended his retreats, read his books, watched his videos I can say that the only kinda sorta problem I have with Anam Thubten's approach is that he tends to use carrots to inspire his students. Enlightenment is the biggest and juiciest. Ground of being could be another.

For me, focusing on enlightenment, ground of being ... or any other concept/story takes my energy away from the immediacy of the present moment and directs it towards becoming, anticipation, goals, payoffs.
Enlightenment is juiciest, but some people need gradual work because masters don't want their students to go crazy with their false views. But trying to attain anything is chaining oneself, that's the tricky part. :D
It’s eye blinking.
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dzogchungpa
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Re: Residing in the ground of being

Post by dzogchungpa »

Speaking of carrots, from http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .budd.html:
Hunger is the worst disease, conditioned things the worst suffering. Knowing this as it really is, the wise realize Nibbana, the highest bliss.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
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Re: Residing in the ground of being

Post by Karma_Yeshe »

Malcolm wrote: Oh, it is not the GERMAN that has the negative connotations, it is the ENGLISH that does.

"Urgrund" in German, as I understand it, does not necessarily have the same connotation as "ground of being" does in English. I am making a comment about English usage. The term "ground of being" really is not attested to before the translation of Tillich into English.
Of course I am not really sure about the connotations that "ground of being" has, but your understanding of "Urgrund" is right. "Urgrund" has no Christian connontation to it. In fact "Urgrund" is used as translation of "gzhi" by the german translators of the Dzogchen Community.
krodha
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Re: Residing in the ground of being

Post by krodha »

Speaking of carrots,

Image
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Rick
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Re: Residing in the ground of being

Post by Rick »

I bow and scrape before you.

What would you have me do, Master?

:rolling: :jumping: :rolling: :jumping: :rolling:
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...
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dzogchungpa
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Re: Residing in the ground of being

Post by dzogchungpa »

rachmiel wrote:I bow and scrape before you.

What would you have me do, Master?
Eat your vegetables, grasshopper.

:sage:
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
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Re: Residing in the ground of being

Post by PadmeSamadhi »

rachmiel, did you succeed in finding the answer for the topic?
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Rick
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Re: Residing in the ground of being

Post by Rick »

Nice that you ask, PS. :bow:

The original question posed:

If the ground of being cannot be found, how can I reside in it?

My current "answer" to this question:

I *am* residing in it, right now. Asking "how" just serves to establish a mental block to seeing/feeling that fact. In the dropping of desires to achieve this or avoid that I "sync up" with the ground, align with it, coincide with it.

rachMiel
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...
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PadmeSamadhi
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Re: Residing in the ground of being

Post by PadmeSamadhi »

I will presume this "ground of being" is the Dharmakaya.
Quoting Guru Rinpoche, but all the rest is MHO and a bit a learned from my Lamas.

I copied these for you because I believe this could be helpful:
2. Concerning training in the meditation possessing experience: Do not place your mind facing outward, do not concentrate it inward, but train in letting it rest naturally, freely, and free from reference point.
Guru Rinpoche - Dakini Teachings (p. 25). Rangjung Yeshe Publications. Kindle Edition.

The master replied : The view, in natural ease, should be free from craving and devoid of partiality and extremes. The meditation should be free from fixating on concreteness and reference points. It cannot be expressed by any ordinary words whatsoever. That is to say, do not place your mind facing outward, do not concentrate it inward, rest in naturalness free from reference point.

Rest undistractedly in the state of unceasing experience at the time of Rest undistractedly in the state of unceasing experience at the time of walking, moving around, lying, or sitting.

The feelings of fulfillment or exhilaration, feeling void, blissful, or clear, are all temporary experiences. They should never be regarded as marvelous.

When states of mind that are agitated, obscured, or drowsy occur, use these experiences as training. Whatever occurs, such as these, do not regard them as defects.
Guru Rinpoche - Dakini Teachings (p. 27). Rangjung Yeshe Publications. Kindle Edition.
I believe this will make you get acquainted with the basis and all of us Buddhists should get this realization.

To me it looks clear that everything manifested is not the basis, also my Lamas keep telling us not to grasp anything that comes from the meditation like: insights, sounds, lights, happiness, visions, etc, anything at all. I believe it would sound like Chagdud Tulku saying "let it go and keep going".

Mind has the potential to manifest anything, so we have to let it all go, just like in this teaching I quoted, the idea IMHO is getting a Samadhi which adheres the Dharmakaya, but many times we could have glimpses but fail on fully recognizing it, no problem, that is a big purification on our wrong views anyway.

View and logical thinking are funny, it is just like a two room company but the team in one room doesnt have direct contact with team in the other room. In one room the View team stores all blueprints and laws, in the other room we have the logical thinking team. They do not work together very directly, but both teams do influence each other a lot. Both teams will make you mislay the Samadhi on Dharmakaya. So we don't hire them for this job of recognizing the basis but our refuge/pratice will work as a third-party consultant who will do our practice and later on will visit both teams and step on their toes (aka purification).

We have these wrong views like these: we see with our eyes, we understand things with our logical thinking, we get to know objects using our senses, thoughts are enough to learn the Dharma truths, etc.
Since we have those views and many more our unceasing experience and reality are built from those views (hi emptiness), so here is a priority:
-dissolving wrong view as best as we can, we have take for granted that wrong views can be knocked down or at least suspended for a little while and then we go practice.

We have to keep reaching the basis until we get this realization, everytime we touch the basis we purify even if we fail to fully realize it.
Then after the practices we have to watch if we are not feeding the wrong views all back again, that's priority.

The best meditations I had, I knocked down pretty good the limits wrong views impose, also I was fully aware (not even a little bit drowsy) and I wasnt trying to fuel my focus but I behaved just like a horse simply standing efortlessly on the grass, so I stayed fully aware with an unbent/unbroken concentration on the tantric practice.

Well, I guess my knowledge comes only this far, if I'm wrong in anything let me know.
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