A friend if mine has just said something to me that I thought I would ask everyone here what they thought....
If a Rinpoche was giving a wang, and the lung is given after, who actually receives the wang? My friend says, only the people that requested the wang. The lamas, tulkus and monks that are up front in the wang, and everyone else just receives a blessing.
I say, that that is not true, everyone would receive that wang. And in turn receive the samaya that is associated with the wang.
What do you think, or know?
Wangs
Re: Wangs
As far as I understood, he who meditates the initiation clearly and is motivated to receive the wang, receives it.
He who attends only the ceremony without interest in receiving it, doesn't receive it.
Two teachers explained it like this.
He who attends only the ceremony without interest in receiving it, doesn't receive it.
Two teachers explained it like this.
Re: Wangs
I think your friend indicated the case when the lay audiences have no translation nor knowledge about what's happening.Rroman wrote:Yes,
That is what I understand as well have been told. Has anyone heard of other wise?
Ideally people should have not only motivation of receiving the empowerment but also the necessary recitation and visualization during the empowerment. With motivation alone, it's still not certain that one can receive empowerment.
Re: Wangs
This is the best case but I would suggest that the person who meditates as best they can at the moment (during the wang) and has the motivation to receive it does so. This is from my Nyingma khenpo who has said this when people ask "I was sleepy this morning, did I receive it?"Ayu wrote:As far as I understood, he who meditates the initiation clearly and is motivated to receive the wang, receives it.
Kirt
“Where do atomic bombs come from?”
Zen Master Seung Sahn said, “That’s simple. Atomic bombs come from the mind that likes this and doesn’t like that.”
"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.
"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
Zen Master Seung Sahn said, “That’s simple. Atomic bombs come from the mind that likes this and doesn’t like that.”
"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.
"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
Re: Wangs
Okay, "as clearly as possible". 
if you can call it clearly to the smalest extent.
In an initiation Dagyab Rinpoche explained us to meditate what he was telling and thus meditate it together with him. This was the wang.
There was a person sitting besides me, completely drunk. He listened to the first half, then he fell asleep.
I seriously doubt he received any initiation.
if you can call it clearly to the smalest extent.In an initiation Dagyab Rinpoche explained us to meditate what he was telling and thus meditate it together with him. This was the wang.
There was a person sitting besides me, completely drunk. He listened to the first half, then he fell asleep.
I seriously doubt he received any initiation.
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Schrödinger’s Yidam
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Re: Wangs
A translator for a wong that does not request the wong does not receive it or the associated commitments.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
Re: Wangs
They are not really all required, or not enough for having empowerment.ngodrup wrote:Knew which wang was being given, wished to be there,
arrived in time to receive the substances.
1. 'knew which wang' is not required, many people received wang without knowing the lineage or tradition in advance anyway. Sometimes people don't even know which deity is given, for example some rare deity named in Tibetan, people have no idea what it is, but as long as one can follow the instruction from lama about visualization it's fine.
2. 'wished to be there' is not required, as long as the person was there.
3. 'arrived in time to receive the substances'. Nowadays the substances are usually given in the end, and it is NOT 'in time' if the person arrived only by then no matter if he drank all the water in the vase. Substances are symbol, it's important to receive them, although in some cases it is allowed to receive substances by visualization or a posture.
I will say the basic requirements are:
1. Wish to receive the empowerment, thus accept the vows required for the empowerment, as well as accept the master who is giving the empowerment your guru.
2. Have some level of visualization or at least good faith on the section of 'awakening/bestowing wisdom', which is the base of empowerment. One of my guru explained that if you come in late, it will be 'in time' if you arrive before this section (only when you already have the necessary vows from other empowerments). If you join after this, you don't have the base of empowerment thus difficult to get empowerment.
3. Follow the guru for the rest of ritual, at least think of receiving whatever he gives.