A perspective on guru-yoga

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Schrödinger’s Yidam
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A perspective on guru-yoga

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

Gyatrul Rinpoche (Nyingma/USA)
Losar message 2016:
Everyone says it’s Losar, the New Year, and they are making a big deal, so I guess I will say Tashi Delek to everyone. I hear that at Tashi Choling, they are doing Vajrasattva practice and somebody mentioned that they don’t have a lama there presiding during the practice. Are you crazy? That Vajrasattva practice is the practice of offering to Vajrasattva as the lama. How can you say that there is no lama there? The name of the practice itself is Dorsem Lama Chodpa—Making Offerings to the Lama as Vajrasattva. How can you say you need another lama beyond that? Vajrasattva is all lamas. So close your mouth to that kind of talk and have faith that all lamas are there. What else do you need? Do you think you need another lama or a better lama than Vajrasattva?

Actually, how can you say that any of the centers don’t have a lama there? Look at all the empowerments, transmissions, and instructions that so many wonderful masters have come and given—they have blessed those places again and again. The lamas’ blessings are there, continuously. Have faith in that, in their blessing, whether you have someone sitting on the throne or not.

Rather than think that you are something special, try to recognize your own nature. That is the real lama there. The lama, Vajrasattva, the nature of your own awareness—these are the same. The lama is dharmakaya, is sambhogakaya, and is nirmanakaya. You think you will get a lama beyond that? Do you think you need one beyond that? Good luck.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
Vasana
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Re: A perspective on guru-yoga

Post by Vasana »

S'true.

You still really do need an outer lama /guru to learn the most skillfull ways of recognizing the inner lama/guru, however. I think the lung is needed to practice Vajrasattva.
'When thoughts arise, recognise them clearly as your teacher'— Gampopa
'When alone, examine your mind, when among others, examine your speech'.— Atisha
tingdzin
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Re: A perspective on guru-yoga

Post by tingdzin »

I expect Gyatrul Rinpoche was addressing students who have probably been involved with Dharma for years and have had empowerments, including Vajrasattva's, out the ears, but are still chasing their external projections. He seems to do that a lot.
Schrödinger’s Yidam
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Re: A perspective on guru-yoga

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

tingdzin wrote:I expect Gyatrul Rinpoche was addressing students who have probably been involved with Dharma for years and have had empowerments, including Vajrasattva's, out the ears, but are still chasing their external projections. He seems to do that a lot.
That's exactly what he was doing. He is in his 90s and people want him to come entertain because he is funny. In effect he was saying "I know it is Losar, but you don't need me there to do your practice".
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
muni
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Re: A perspective on guru-yoga

Post by muni »

This by the four reliances meant to help to stop clinging to what is "perceived" as our master, while at the same time meant to help to not lose respect since "he/she" is Buddha nature, holding a mirror, showing own same Buddha nature.

" two extremes:

Some of us really are looking for a master to follow. We think that someone out there can "fix" us and make our lives better. Others of us avoid teachers, often because of personal issues about authority figures. Or, we might think we are smart enough to "get" this by ourselves, and we don't need anyone telling us what to believe.

Both of these extremes are pitfalls, and they are both rooted in the same self-other dichotomy, the same delusion.

Clinging to something or avoiding something both come from seeing oneself as separate from everything else. Liberation from this delusion is enlightenment.

Frankly, you aren't likely to free yourself from a delusion while you are catering to it. Where is the middle path between clinging and avoiding? Finding equanimity, the path between extremes, is essential.

The role of the teacher varies somewhat between one school of Buddhism and another"
Simon E.
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Re: A perspective on guru-yoga

Post by Simon E. »

tingdzin wrote:I expect Gyatrul Rinpoche was addressing students who have probably been involved with Dharma for years and have had empowerments, including Vajrasattva's, out the ears, but are still chasing their external projections. He seems to do that a lot.

I suspect that this is spot on. Once the relationship with the ' outer ' guru is established, the relationship with the ' inner ' guru can be cultivated.
But the process happens in that chronological order, it cannot be by-passed . It is not optional.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
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dzogchungpa
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Re: A perspective on guru-yoga

Post by dzogchungpa »

Having a relationship with an 'outer' guru is really great, isn't it?
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
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Thomas Amundsen
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Re: A perspective on guru-yoga

Post by Thomas Amundsen »

Simon E. wrote:
tingdzin wrote:I expect Gyatrul Rinpoche was addressing students who have probably been involved with Dharma for years and have had empowerments, including Vajrasattva's, out the ears, but are still chasing their external projections. He seems to do that a lot.


I suspect that this is spot on. Once the relationship with the ' outer ' guru is established, the relationship with the ' inner ' guru can be cultivated.
But the process happens in that chronological order, it cannot be by-passed . It is not optional.
:good:
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: A perspective on guru-yoga

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Simon E. wrote:
tingdzin wrote:I expect Gyatrul Rinpoche was addressing students who have probably been involved with Dharma for years and have had empowerments, including Vajrasattva's, out the ears, but are still chasing their external projections. He seems to do that a lot.

I suspect that this is spot on. Once the relationship with the ' outer ' guru is established, the relationship with the ' inner ' guru can be cultivated.
But the process happens in that chronological order, it cannot be by-passed . It is not optional.

Sure,of course. What the quote seems to be saying (to my untrained eye granted) though is that cultivation of faith and view is up to the practitioner. You can't always just ask the Outer Guru if it's ok to fart every time you have a question or doubt, or think your teacher will walk the path for you. After all the best way to honor the Guru and The Buddhas is putting their instructions into practice, not by being a sycophant....

I would be interested to know the context of the comment however.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
Schrödinger’s Yidam
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Re: A perspective on guru-yoga

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

He is over 90 years old. I think he was excusing himself from Losar festivities.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
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