15th Karmapa practice?

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15th Karmapa practice?

Postby lasirene » Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:00 am

Hi,
Is there anyone who knows anything about the 15th Karmapa meditation? Lama Ole Nydahl teaches the practice. However, the great Kagyu lamas do not want it to be taught in public.
The only thing I know about this practice is that we appears in the form of Dorje Phagmo with Karmapa in our hearts and send light to all sentient beings. Maybe there is someone who can tell me more?
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I would be very grateful if someone could help me. :namaste:
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Re: 15th Karmapa practice?

Postby conebeckham » Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:28 pm

Could it be that you're asking about the "Thun Shi Lamai Naljor," which is a practice based on Karmapa--but the 8th, not the 15th? I'm not aware of a 15th Karmapa practice that is "popular" but I know Ole teaches the Thun Shi....and the details you write about lead me to believe that is it.....
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Re: 15th Karmapa practice?

Postby lasirene » Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:31 pm

Lama Ole spoke once about the different versions of the Karmapa meditation. He talked about the guru yoga of 2nd, 3rd, 8th, 15th and 16th Karmapa. I know that Ole teaches 15th Karmapa night practice, but I'm not sure if this is the meditation, in which Lama appears in the union. Maybe there are 2 different practices... I guess I should ask this question of one of the Kagyu lamas.
This is the cover text of the night practice of 15th Karmapa that Lama Ole teaches.
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Re: 15th Karmapa practice?

Postby dzoki » Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:05 pm

lasirene wrote:Hi,
Is there anyone who knows anything about the 15th Karmapa meditation? Lama Ole Nydahl teaches the practice. However, the great Kagyu lamas do not want it to be taught in public.
The only thing I know about this practice is that we appears in the form of Dorje Phagmo with Karmapa in our hearts and send light to all sentient beings. Maybe there is someone who can tell me more?
Image
I would be very grateful if someone could help me. :namaste:


The picture above is a support for the guruyoga of the 15th Karmapa called bla ma´i rnal ´byor bde chen grub pa´i thig le (Thigle of the accomplishment of great bliss). This practice is considered secret and requires an empowerment.

As for the "Clear Light Meditation" I don´t know where it comes from, since it is not a part of Dechen drubpe thigle. Also it is not included in the collection of short guruyogas by the 15th Karmapa. So I don´t know who is the author of that, maybe Ole?
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Re: 15th Karmapa practice?

Postby lasirene » Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:29 pm

dzoki wrote:The picture above is a support for the guruyoga of the 15th Karmapa called bla ma´i rnal ´byor bde chen grub pa´i thig le (Thigle of the accomplishment of great bliss). This practice is considered secret and requires an empowerment.


Wow thanks a lot. That's what I needed.

dzoki wrote:As for the "Clear Light Meditation" I don´t know where it comes from, since it is not a part of Dechen drubpe thigle. Also it is not included in the collection of short guruyogas by the 15th Karmapa. So I don´t know who is the author of that, maybe Ole?


Lama Ole received the oral transmission of this practice from Gendyn Rinpoche. He later wrote the text of "Clear Light Meditation".
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Re: 15th Karmapa practice?

Postby Stewart » Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:35 pm

dzoki wrote:
lasirene wrote:Hi,
Is there anyone who knows anything about the 15th Karmapa meditation? Lama Ole Nydahl teaches the practice. However, the great Kagyu lamas do not want it to be taught in public.
The only thing I know about this practice is that we appears in the form of Dorje Phagmo with Karmapa in our hearts and send light to all sentient beings. Maybe there is someone who can tell me more?
Image
I would be very grateful if someone could help me. :namaste:


The picture above is a support for the guruyoga of the 15th Karmapa called bla ma´i rnal ´byor bde chen grub pa´i thig le (Thigle of the accomplishment of great bliss). This practice is considered secret and requires an empowerment.

As for the "Clear Light Meditation" I don´t know where it comes from, since it is not a part of Dechen drubpe thigle. Also it is not included in the collection of short guruyogas by the 15th Karmapa. So I don´t know who is the author of that, maybe Ole?



Hi Dzoki,

The text 'The Thigle that Accomplishes Great Bliss' that I am familiar with, is a commentary composed by the 15th Karmapa about the Guru Yoga of Karma Pakshi which was revealed by Yongey Mingyur Dorje in the 17th century. I have received transmission and extensive instruction on this Sadhana, and it's commentary, from my Guru.

I have never heard of this text specifically in relation to Khakyab Dorje as the actual object of the Sadhana. But I'm open to new information. Is it on TBRC?, if so please link me to the text. Edit: Found it, will compare it against the text I have. Re-Edit: Now I can't find the Tibetan version of my text, think it is elsewhere at my parents house, so not comparing it today!.

The Image we see is a Karmapa in union, with single form Khorlo Demchog and Vajravarhi below, both of whom appear in the "Thun Shi Lamai Naljor" of Mikyo Dorje, also Mahakala Bernachen and Kuntu Zangpo, Guru Rinpoche and Saraha above. This is the only image of it's kind I have seen, and would like to know more about it, and how authentic it is.

Best wishes,

Stewart.
s.
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Re: 15th Karmapa practice?

Postby conebeckham » Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:35 pm

I seem to recall the same thing as Stewart, and I have 15th Karmapa's collected works, so will go do some research later on when I get time, and will report back.
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Re: 15th Karmapa practice?

Postby futerko » Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:40 pm

lasirene wrote:
dzoki wrote:As for the "Clear Light Meditation" I don´t know where it comes from, since it is not a part of Dechen drubpe thigle. Also it is not included in the collection of short guruyogas by the 15th Karmapa. So I don´t know who is the author of that, maybe Ole?


Lama Ole received the oral transmission of this practice from Gendyn Rinpoche. He later wrote the text of "Clear Light Meditation".


I'm guessing here, but I suspect it may be a practice based on one of the six yogas of Naropa.
we cannot get rid of God because we still believe in grammar - Nietzsche
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Re: 15th Karmapa practice?

Postby conebeckham » Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:19 pm

The first volume of 15th Karmapa's collected works contains this "Lamai Naljor," or Guru Yoga, which is indeed distinct from the Guru Yoga of the 8th Karmapa. The one we are discussing contains such elements as "Dudtsi blessing" and also a tsok. But it's similar, in many respects, to the famous and popular Thun Shi Lamai Naljor. If you can read Tibetan, it's available at TBRC as well, I'm sure, in Khakyab Dorje's KaBum. There is also some focus on Clear Light, and Mahamudra, as completion stage practices.

As for Clear Light Meditation, I don't know what Ole's book contains, but there are a lot of presentations of Clear Light, not merely in Naropa's Six Yogas. These things are best learned and discussed with one's teacher, for sure.
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Re: 15th Karmapa practice?

Postby lasirene » Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:21 pm

conebeckham wrote:As for Clear Light Meditation, I don't know what Ole's book contains, but there are a lot of presentations of Clear Light, not merely in Naropa's Six Yogas.


This is kind of the night practice. We appear in the form of Dorje Phagmo with the 15th Karmapa in our heart. Then we send light to all sentient beings, and fall asleep. After waking up the light coming back to us, etc..
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Re: 15th Karmapa practice?

Postby Rafael Maurin » Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:44 pm

Hi
Lama Ole Nydhal received this particular practice from Gendun Rinpoche, who received it from Pawo Rinpoche. Pawo Rinpoche received this from 15th Karmapa himself.
So I`ve heard
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