3rd karmapa's aspiration of mahamudra prayer

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Grigoris
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Re: 3rd karmapa's aspiration of mahamudra prayer

Postby Grigoris » Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:31 pm

There are (restricted) sadhana texts and commentaries available all over the internet too, if you believe that this means one should not get the prerequisite lung, tri and wang in order to practice them then... :shrug:
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: 3rd karmapa's aspiration of mahamudra prayer

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:34 pm


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Re: 3rd karmapa's aspiration of mahamudra prayer

Postby muni » Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:36 pm

Last edited by muni on Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 3rd karmapa's aspiration of mahamudra prayer

Postby randomseb » Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:56 pm


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Re: 3rd karmapa's aspiration of mahamudra prayer

Postby Grigoris » Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:09 pm

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: 3rd karmapa's aspiration of mahamudra prayer

Postby Andrew108 » Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:32 pm

The Blessed One said:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.

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Re: 3rd karmapa's aspiration of mahamudra prayer

Postby Yudron » Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:43 pm

Author of Buddhist young adult fiction. Vlogger at Wisdom and Compassion: Grandma Yudron's Totally Chill Vlog on Meditation and Tibetan Wisdom Blogger at Very active on Twitter.

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Re: 3rd karmapa's aspiration of mahamudra prayer

Postby conebeckham » Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:28 pm

the Third Karmapa's Aspiration of Mahamudra is in the form of a "Monlam," or aspiration prayer. It's common practice in Karma Kagyu centers to recite it at the end of various pujas, tsoks, etc. It is perhaps the most well-loved Karma Kagyu aspiration prayer there is.....

It's also one of the most commented-on texts in the Karma Kagyu tradition--you can find many commentaries published in books, and on-line, as everyone's noted.

It is not a restricted text, at least not in the Karma Kagyu circles I have moved in for decades. BUT--it is ideal to have "lung," and more importantly, I feel, an oral explanation and commentary on the text. Without those things, it is useful as an overview and teaching of the Mahamudra tradition of the Karma Kagyu, but it does not become a complete element of one's living practice. Therefore, it would be good if those who are interested in making this a part of their daily practice would get the "lung" and "tri," but I believe it's appropriate and beneficial to read the commentaries that are available by respected Lamas, even if one does not have the "lung" and "tri."


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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Re: 3rd karmapa's aspiration of mahamudra prayer

Postby randomseb » Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:36 pm


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Re: 3rd karmapa's aspiration of mahamudra prayer

Postby conebeckham » Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:12 pm

It's a somewhat delicate balance, IMO.....and I think Greg raises a valid point, or one worth pondering at least.

This text isn't really "sutra level" text. It does contain some "pith instructions" from Mahamudra tradition, which is Tantra. Of course, our tradition is to encompass sutra and tantra in one path, and so there are elements of Sutra involved here, as well. There's also a bit of the "Doha" or "Tantric Song" flavor here.

The potential danger with public "consumption" of such material is two-fold, as I see it.

First, there is the possibility that, by reading the words without an explanation, one can misconstrue the meaning, of course--but more than that, one may develop some sort of conceptual idea, and form (and subsequently hold or cling to) a misunderstanding which may "block" the true, experiential dawning of View. This is the traditional reason why such texts are "restricted"--things like "Chagchen Ngedon Gyamtso ("Ocean of Absolute Meaning," or sometimes translated as "Ocean of Certainty")" etc. are wonderful opportunities for such possibilities when they are delivered by the right teacher, to the devoted student, but they can also be fuel for self-delusion.

The second issue is based on the first. It sometimes happens that an individual without experience, but under the self-delusion referred to above, thinks they can teach others about the Absolute Meaning. Thus, misunderstanding it themselves, they are not content to be confused, but wish to confuse others as well.

These are the reasons why traditional teachers are concerned. They are good reasons. If one understands these reasons, and is honestly able to evaluate one's experience, I think there's no problem. But we're so good at deluding ourselves (the very basis of Samsara, in fact) that, in the end, a qualified Guru is the only one who can evaluate our experience.


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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Re: 3rd karmapa's aspiration of mahamudra prayer

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:16 pm

Good points. Some texts have two levels of meaning, e.g. Seven-Line Prayer to Padmasambhava.

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Re: 3rd karmapa's aspiration of mahamudra prayer

Postby randomseb » Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:35 pm

The other point my Lama warned me about is that often these things don't translate properly, either because of a lack of a suitable word, or because of prior meanings to words (for example mind and consciousness). Often things are translated by scholars, not practioners, so the meaning gets lost

:reading:

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Re: 3rd karmapa's aspiration of mahamudra prayer

Postby TsultimNamdak » Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:04 am

Granted, this is not an online source but the prayer is included in the Kagyu Monlam Book. That book is well worth getting, as all the important prayers are included. And they are all printed in Tibetan, with phonetics, and translated, too.

Best wishes...

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Re: 3rd karmapa's aspiration of mahamudra prayer

Postby muni » Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:18 pm


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Re: 3rd karmapa's aspiration of mahamudra prayer

Postby zangskar » Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:46 pm


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Re: 3rd karmapa's aspiration of mahamudra prayer

Postby Grigoris » Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:09 pm

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: 3rd karmapa's aspiration of mahamudra prayer

Postby practitioner » Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:21 pm

One should do nothing other than benefit sentient beings either directly or indirectly - Shantideva

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Re: 3rd karmapa's aspiration of mahamudra prayer

Postby Stewart » Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:39 pm

s.

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Re: 3rd karmapa's aspiration of mahamudra prayer

Postby heart » Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:08 pm

"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

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Re: 3rd karmapa's aspiration of mahamudra prayer

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:57 pm



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