Mantra Liberation Through Hearing ("Ha Gan Ga")

[daelm]

i think what i am suggesting is that an internet community is no substitute for a real-world sangha

Until it is .

I think we're agreeing. There are real gaps in virtual communication, and building a sangha that way will have to take them into account. But there are real problems with real world too, not least the fact that it easily grows to mirror ordinary social dynamics, because they're so strong. In the end, it's always going to depend on the practitioner, because nothing is a safety net. No guarantee, apart from yourself, no matter how you connect.

[Urgyen Dorje]

daelm...

i think we're agreeing as well.

for me, when there are conversations/arguments/debates that never end, it's generally because there are other questions woven in and out. boring through the archive of olders posts, it's really clear by people's comments, that the question of whether a specific internet technology is legit in a specific vajrayana setting-- is actually related to a higher order question of how internet technology is helping and harming sanghas and the transmission of the dharma, and where we can go with it.

i am going to take simon e's advice and shut the heck up and not go there, as people may not want to engage in that inquiry. it may be more useful to just repeat the facts again and again and again. i doubt it, but i'm the noob.

but we are agreeing. i'm agreeing with malcolm. i'm agreeing with simon and cone and norweigian and everyone.

i think what i am suggesting is that an internet community is no substitute for a real-world sangha

Until it is .

I think we're agreeing. There are real gaps in virtual communication, and building a sangha that way will have to take them into account. But there are real problems with real world too, not least the fact that it easily grows to mirror ordinary social dynamics, because they're so strong. In the end, it's always going to depend on the practitioner, because nothing is a safety net. No guarantee, apart from yourself, no matter how you connect.

[MalaBeads]

I think we're agreeing. There are real gaps in virtual communication, and building a sangha that way will have to take them into account. But there are real problems with real world too, not least the fact that it easily grows to mirror ordinary social dynamics, because they're so strong. In the end, it's always going to depend on the practitioner, because nothing is a safety net. No guarantee, apart from yourself, no matter how you connect.

[Karma Dondrup Tashi]

Hi, yes? Tashi Rinpoche here. You said you wanted to speak to me. What's that? You're unhappy? Why is that? Oh. Well, I'm sure a doctor can prescribe some lotion you can spread on it ...

What's that? Something a bit more radical? Ok, well, tell you what, I'll sell you a jewel. A magic jewel. Yes. Yes. That's right. It's very powerful. It's the wish granting jewel of wrathful spaghetti tentacles, who is the protector of all 90s hair music everywhere. Success is guaranteed. No not right away, you'll get it halfway down the interstate. When? Oh, four days from now it all goes clear. As it were. That's right. Hehe. Don't you trust me?

Huh? You have no money? Well, ok, tell you what no worries, I'll give it to you for free. Yes, out of the goodness of my heart. Well, because I'm a nice guy that's why. So ... I assume you're around, I'll meet you on the corner of Duane and Reade in 5 minutes ... ?

What's that. You live where? SWEDEN? Well what the hell man how do you expect me to give you this jewel when you live thousands of miles away?

Sigh, ok, ok, stop ... whining like that. Oh, stop sobbing, Jesus. You're making your rash spread. I'll let you in on a little secret, I told a kind of fib. It's not really an actual, physical jewel, you see, it's more like a phrase. What? Phrase. PHRASE. No not phase, PHRASE ... sigh, yes, ok if you like, magic spell. Yes, fine, whatever floats your boat. Yes, you speak it. Over and over again. Right. Just say the words. Yes ... sigh ... like a spell.

So anyway, we need a few things, I'm gonna hit you over the head with my beer bottle and then throw this gum wrapper into this circle I'm drawing on the ground with some chalk ... Why? Because the phrase ... sorry, spell, doesn't work unless we do this stuff. Them's the rules. Why? I dunno why man, why do you have the rub the lamp to get the genie to come out instead of just tell him you want to chat, that's just how it works with this kind of ... spell. You want another kind of spell, go see some other guy. No, no it's ok you're not actually here. Just try to imagine what I'm doing as best you can, then I'll just let you know what it is. Mkay?

Ok, so that's done. So put your ear close to the phone, I'll whisper it to you. What? You're not using a phone? An online video? Like a whatumacallit, a webcast? Cool man! Whoa, that's like so techno. Far out. What's that? You want to invite some of your buddies so they can hear it too? Sure! Invite the whole neighborhood let's make this a party! The more the merrier! (Sheesh I didn't know they had the internet in Sweden).

OK, here we go I'm going to whisper it to you guys right now ... Huh? Something else you think you should mention ok ... Right you already said you're watching me on a video, on the internet. A webcast, right?

... What do you mean, "not live"? What do you mean? ... You're watching me ... on a server? What's that? ... Um, ok. You mean, like ... from a video tape or something like that ... ?

Wait ... how can I whisper this to you ... if I'm ... not really talking to you ... ? Wait. Who ... are you actually? I mean ... how can I really be talking to you ... if you're not really here right now ... Ok, wait I'm starting to really get freaked out ... Who am I really talking to? How can a ... guy on TV talk to some one who's watching TV ... Who the f*ck are you anyway? What do you mean you have a rash you're not really here, how can you have a rash when you're not really even here - who are you and who am I talking to?! Jesus F*g Christ, who are you just some kind of voice in my head or what?!?! Tell me right now who are you and who am I talking to and how can I be really talking to you right now if I'm on TV and your'e watching TV and WTF!!! Guard! Guard! This is the fifth time I told you today I'm not allowing any more calls! Stop talking about your rash! And stop speaking Swedish! I don't even speak Swedish! Waitaminute how can I be understanding you if I don't speak Swedish, guard! Guard! These restraints are coming loose and there's a bug over by the corner where the pads are coming off the wall and NO I DON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR RASH ANYMORE! Get out of my head whoever you are! Guard! Guard! Tell this voice in my head to get out of my head! You WHAT! You just clicked on a link and found this groovy vid and you're going to watch it and then go order a BURGER? How can you eat a burger when you have a rash all over your OH GOD OH GOD THE RASH IS SPREADING IT'S SPREADING IT'S COMING OUT OF THE WALLS IT'S CRAWLING LIKE A BUG ALL OVER THE GUARD GUARD GUARD GUARD GGGGGGGGAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRR

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[Malcolm]

Med check time?

Hi, yes? Tashi Rinpoche here. You said you wanted to speak to me. What's that? You're unhappy? Why is that? Oh. Well, I'm sure a doctor can prescribe some lotion you can spread on it ...

What's that? Something a bit more radical? Ok, well, tell you what, I'll sell you a jewel. A magic jewel. Yes. Yes. That's right. It's very powerful. It's the wish granting jewel of wrathful spaghetti tentacles, who is the protector of all 90s hair music everywhere. Success is guaranteed. No not right away, you'll get it halfway down the interstate. When? Oh, four days from now it all goes clear. As it were. That's right. Hehe. Don't you trust me?

Huh? You have no money? Well, ok, tell you what no worries, I'll give it to you for free. Yes, out of the goodness of my heart. Well, because I'm a nice guy that's why. So ... I assume you're around, I'll meet you on the corner of Duane and Reade in 5 minutes ... ?

What's that. You live where? SWEDEN? Well what the hell man how do you expect me to give you this jewel when you live thousands of miles away?

Sigh, ok, ok, stop ... whining like that. Oh, stop sobbing, Jesus. You're making your rash spread. I'll let you in on a little secret, I told a kind of fib. It's not really an actual, physical jewel, you see, it's more like a phrase. What? Phrase. PHRASE. No not phase, PHRASE ... sigh, yes, ok if you like, magic spell. Yes, fine, whatever floats your boat. Yes, you speak it. Over and over again. Right. Just say the words. Yes ... sigh ... like a spell.

So anyway, we need a few things, I'm gonna hit you over the head with my beer bottle and then throw this gum wrapper into this circle I'm drawing on the ground with some chalk ... Why? Because the phrase ... sorry, spell, doesn't work unless we do this stuff. Them's the rules. Why? I dunno why man, why do you have the rub the lamp to get the genie to come out instead of just tell him you want to chat, that's just how it works with this kind of ... spell. You want another kind of spell, go see some other guy. No, no it's ok you're not actually here. Just try to imagine what I'm doing as best you can, then I'll just let you know what it is. Mkay?

Ok, so that's done. So put your ear close to the phone, I'll whisper it to you. What? You're not using a phone? An online video? Like a whatumacallit, a webcast? Cool man! Whoa, that's like so techno. Far out. What's that? You want to invite some of your buddies so they can hear it too? Sure! Invite the whole neighborhood let's make this a party! The more the merrier! (Sheesh I didn't know they had the internet in Sweden).

OK, here we go I'm going to whisper it to you guys right now ... Huh? Something else you think you should mention ok ... Right you already said you're watching me on a video, on the internet. A webcast, right?

... What do you mean, "not live"? What do you mean? ... You're watching me ... on a server? What's that? ... Um, ok. You mean, like ... from a video tape or something like that ... ?

Wait ... how can I whisper this to you ... if I'm ... not really talking to you ... ? Wait. Who ... are you actually? I mean ... how can I really be talking to you ... if you're not really here right now ... Ok, wait I'm starting to really get freaked out ... Who am I really talking to? How can a ... guy on TV talk to some one who's watching TV ... Who the f*ck are you anyway? What do you mean you have a rash you're not really here, how can you have a rash when you're not really even here - who are you and who am I talking to?! Jesus F*g Christ, who are you just some kind of voice in my head or what?!?! Tell me right now who are you and who am I talking to and how can I be really talking to you right now if I'm on TV and your'e watching TV and WTF!!! Guard! Guard! This is the fifth time I told you today I'm not allowing any more calls! Stop talking about your rash! And stop speaking Swedish! I don't even speak Swedish! Waitaminute how can I be understanding you if I don't speak Swedish, guard! Guard! These restraints are coming loose and there's a bug over by the corner where the pads are coming off the wall and NO I DON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR RASH ANYMORE! Get out of my head whoever you are! Guard! Guard! Tell this voice in my head to get out of my head! You WHAT! You just clicked on a link and found this groovy vid and you're going to watch it and then go order a BURGER? How can you eat a burger when you have a rash all over your OH GOD OH GOD THE RASH IS SPREADING IT'S SPREADING IT'S COMING OUT OF THE WALLS IT'S CRAWLING LIKE A BUG ALL OVER THE GUARD GUARD GUARD GUARD GGGGGGGGAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRR

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[LastLegend]

[Karma Dondrup Tashi]

I'm out. Fortunately I can order refills on their website. Unfortunately I have no way to get online.

Murrica.

[Urgyen Dorje]

Mint. Top shelf, silver.

Hi, yes? Tashi Rinpoche here. You said you wanted to speak to me. What's that? You're unhappy? Why is that? Oh. Well, I'm sure a doctor can prescribe some lotion you can spread on it ...

What's that? Something a bit more radical? Ok, well, tell you what, I'll sell you a jewel. A magic jewel. Yes. Yes. That's right. It's very powerful. It's the wish granting jewel of wrathful spaghetti tentacles, who is the protector of all 90s hair music everywhere. Success is guaranteed. No not right away, you'll get it halfway down the interstate. When? Oh, four days from now it all goes clear. As it were. That's right. Hehe. Don't you trust me?

Huh? You have no money? Well, ok, tell you what no worries, I'll give it to you for free. Yes, out of the goodness of my heart. Well, because I'm a nice guy that's why. So ... I assume you're around, I'll meet you on the corner of Duane and Reade in 5 minutes ... ?

What's that. You live where? SWEDEN? Well what the hell man how do you expect me to give you this jewel when you live thousands of miles away?

Sigh, ok, ok, stop ... whining like that. Oh, stop sobbing, Jesus. You're making your rash spread. I'll let you in on a little secret, I told a kind of fib. It's not really an actual, physical jewel, you see, it's more like a phrase. What? Phrase. PHRASE. No not phase, PHRASE ... sigh, yes, ok if you like, magic spell. Yes, fine, whatever floats your boat. Yes, you speak it. Over and over again. Right. Just say the words. Yes ... sigh ... like a spell.

So anyway, we need a few things, I'm gonna hit you over the head with my beer bottle and then throw this gum wrapper into this circle I'm drawing on the ground with some chalk ... Why? Because the phrase ... sorry, spell, doesn't work unless we do this stuff. Them's the rules. Why? I dunno why man, why do you have the rub the lamp to get the genie to come out instead of just tell him you want to chat, that's just how it works with this kind of ... spell. You want another kind of spell, go see some other guy. No, no it's ok you're not actually here. Just try to imagine what I'm doing as best you can, then I'll just let you know what it is. Mkay?

Ok, so that's done. So put your ear close to the phone, I'll whisper it to you. What? You're not using a phone? An online video? Like a whatumacallit, a webcast? Cool man! Whoa, that's like so techno. Far out. What's that? You want to invite some of your buddies so they can hear it too? Sure! Invite the whole neighborhood let's make this a party! The more the merrier! (Sheesh I didn't know they had the internet in Sweden).

OK, here we go I'm going to whisper it to you guys right now ... Huh? Something else you think you should mention ok ... Right you already said you're watching me on a video, on the internet. A webcast, right?

... What do you mean, "not live"? What do you mean? ... You're watching me ... on a server? What's that? ... Um, ok. You mean, like ... from a video tape or something like that ... ?

Wait ... how can I whisper this to you ... if I'm ... not really talking to you ... ? Wait. Who ... are you actually? I mean ... how can I really be talking to you ... if you're not really here right now ... Ok, wait I'm starting to really get freaked out ... Who am I really talking to? How can a ... guy on TV talk to some one who's watching TV ... Who the f*ck are you anyway? What do you mean you have a rash you're not really here, how can you have a rash when you're not really even here - who are you and who am I talking to?! Jesus F*g Christ, who are you just some kind of voice in my head or what?!?! Tell me right now who are you and who am I talking to and how can I be really talking to you right now if I'm on TV and your'e watching TV and WTF!!! Guard! Guard! This is the fifth time I told you today I'm not allowing any more calls! Stop talking about your rash! And stop speaking Swedish! I don't even speak Swedish! Waitaminute how can I be understanding you if I don't speak Swedish, guard! Guard! These restraints are coming loose and there's a bug over by the corner where the pads are coming off the wall and NO I DON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR RASH ANYMORE! Get out of my head whoever you are! Guard! Guard! Tell this voice in my head to get out of my head! You WHAT! You just clicked on a link and found this groovy vid and you're going to watch it and then go order a BURGER? How can you eat a burger when you have a rash all over your OH GOD OH GOD THE RASH IS SPREADING IT'S SPREADING IT'S COMING OUT OF THE WALLS IT'S CRAWLING LIKE A BUG ALL OVER THE GUARD GUARD GUARD GUARD GGGGGGGGAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRR

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[A Ah Sha Sa Ma Ha]

Thats the best thing i've read in a long time....