Ngondro

[Yudron]

My first ngondro I did with a Lama who has one accumulate do all of the accumulations concurrently rather than sequentially. That ngondro took 4 years in working, married life.

[Yudron]

My first ngondro I did with a Lama who has one accumulate do all of the accumulations concurrently rather than sequentially. That ngondro took 4 years in working, married life.

I didn't notice I was in the Kagyu Forum, sorry. I've done only Nyingma ngondros.

[gregkavarnos]

My first ngondro I did with a Lama who has one accumulate do all of the accumulations concurrently rather than sequentially. That ngondro took 4 years in working, married life.

I didn't notice I was in the Kagyu Forum, sorry. I've done only Nyingma ngondros.

Well you should be sorry! You nasty, naughty, nyingma you!

[deepbluehum]

At the Vajra Yoga center in SF, Drubpon Gonpo Dorje Rinpoche is starting a cycle of Co-Emergent Mahamudra teachings. There are four preliminaries: Contemplation of Impermanence and Death, Guru Yoga, Vajrasattva Recitation and Mandala Offering. He researched Lord Jigten Sumgon's texts where it is recommended that each preliminary should be completed in at least two weeks of solitary retreat, which comes out to about 150 hours. The 100,000 came after about the 13th Century when monastery practice became the mainstay, but in Milarepa's time of lay practitioners it was not like that. He is planning to allow students to complete at least a three day retreat (10 hrs / day), and then allow the student to complete the remainder of the 150 hours at home. When the preliminaries are complete, then he will give the pointing out instructions and the retreats of mahamudra. From now on, the focus will be on quality of recitation, rather than quantity. HH Drikung Chetsang Rinpoche gave his approval for Westerners to be trained in this way. It acknowledges not only that Westerners don't have sufficient time to complete 100,000 recitations, but also it acknowledges the merit Westerners have already gathered, typically being intelligent, well-educated, and having comfortable living situations. HH explains that the practice is simpler, but the blessings are much greater.

[Terma]

Very interesting, deepbluehum!

I really agree with the comment about the merit that westerner's posses. I think I heard in a teaching years ago that way, way back when (in India), Vajrayana initially was only taught to the upper echelon's of the society, ie. kings, nobleman...And this was due to their previous accumulation of merit, as it was taught those without sufficient merit would not likely succeed in practicing the Vajrayana. So in a way it makes sense that there are so many Westerners practicing Vajrayana in these times; due to our merit, and looking at things in terms of the merit that we have, all the more reason to be diligent and make us of this situation before this merit is exhausted.

But getting back to topic...

I must admit, the prospect of a condensed ngondro in this way and format is quite attractive! But alas, my teacher is fairly traditional in this way so I will do the full deal. besides it is an amazing practice, so no complaints here! But time is a factor for so many people these days.

Terma

[Terma]

I didn't notice I was in the Kagyu Forum, sorry. I've done only Nyingma ngondros.

Actually, perhaps I should start a new topic in the general section, as the ngondro I am doing comes from a terma cycle so it is not actually the Mahamudra/kagyu ngondro.

[smcj]

I just joined DW. I can't tell you how nice it is to see a thread with 186 posts regarding Ngondro/prostrations. It's heartwarming. Thanks everybody. I'll go through the entire thread at a later date.

[TaTa]

Anyone doing the 17th karmapa ngondro?

[smcj]

Anyone doing the 17th karmapa ngondro?

No. What is different about it? As in, if it is shorter, where can I find it?

[conebeckham]

I' ve "dabbled" with it, and yes, it's much shorter.

I'm sure it's available out there, somewhere....it's a small booklet.

[smcj]

I' ve "dabbled" with it, and yes, it's much shorter.

I'm sure it's available out there, somewhere....it's a small booklet.

Still 111,111 of each though, right?

[gregkavarnos]

I' ve "dabbled" with it, and yes, it's much shorter.

I'm sure it's available out there, somewhere....it's a small booklet.

Still 111,111 of each though, right?

If it is 111,111 of each it doesn't make it any shorter, unless you mean like a shorter liturgy.

[Stewart]

I' ve "dabbled" with it, and yes, it's much shorter.

I'm sure it's available out there, somewhere....it's a small booklet.

Still 111,111 of each though, right?

If it is 111,111 of each it doesn't make it any shorter, unless you mean like a shorter liturgy.

It's a shorter liturgy...As is the 'The Kusalis Nectar' by Jamgon Kongtrul Lodro Thaye, which is the Ngondro I done under Mingyur Rinpoche as part of two 3 year and a 5 year Mahamudra courses. Plus I only had to do 11k of each part as per MR's instruction, it was mainly geared toward pointing out/introduction, not number crunching

[TaTa]

Anyone doing the 17th karmapa ngondro?

No. What is different about it? As in, if it is shorter, where can I find it?

Yes. Shorter liturgy and we are encouraged to make 10k acumulations of each first and then complete the rest. I have recived the instrucctions and lung but havent started yet (still working on the 4 thoughts that turn the mind towards dharma. In my center are given in the context of a meditation program given by bokar rinpoche that takes at least half a year)

[smcj]

Before you start each session of your NgonDro practice, you're supposed to contemplate 'The Four Thoughts', one of which is death.

The following is an excerpt from William Van Poyck, who wrote it on death row shortly before being executed:

I've already thrown or given away 95% of my personal property, the stuff that for years seemed so important. All those great books I'll never get to read; reams and reams of legal work I've been dragging around, and studying, for two decades and which has suddenly lost its relevance.

My magazines and newspapers stack up unread; I have little appetite to waste valuable, irreplaceable hours reading up on current events. Does it really matter to me now what's happening in the Middle East, or on Wall Street, or how my Miami Dolphins are looking for the upcoming new season? What's the point? Ditto the TV; I'm uninterested in wasting time watching programs that now mean nothing in the grand scheme of things.

The other day I caught myself reaching for my daily vitamin. Really?, I wondered, as the absurdity hit me. Likewise, after 40 years of working out religiously, that's out the window now. Again, what's the point? Now, every decision about how to spend the next hour reminds me of Elaine in that "Seinfeld" episode where she had to constantly evaluate whether her boyfriends were really "sponge worthy."

Can you see how that frame of mind would make a session of NgonDro more potent?

The actual formal meditation of death has more elements than that, but he seemed to have covered parts of it pretty well. For instance I don't think the Seinfeld reference is necessary for a Buddhist to contemplate in particular. But then again, I've never seen that episode, so maybe it is!

Mods: that quote was from a CNN article, in case there's a copyright policy or issue.

[Nilasarasvati]

Before you start each session of your NgonDro practice, you're supposed to contemplate 'The Four Thoughts', one of which is death.

The following is an excerpt from William Van Poyck, who wrote it on death row shortly before being executed:

I've already thrown or given away 95% of my personal property, the stuff that for years seemed so important. All those great books I'll never get to read; reams and reams of legal work I've been dragging around, and studying, for two decades and which has suddenly lost its relevance.

My magazines and newspapers stack up unread; I have little appetite to waste valuable, irreplaceable hours reading up on current events. Does it really matter to me now what's happening in the Middle East, or on Wall Street, or how my Miami Dolphins are looking for the upcoming new season? What's the point? Ditto the TV; I'm uninterested in wasting time watching programs that now mean nothing in the grand scheme of things.

The other day I caught myself reaching for my daily vitamin. Really?, I wondered, as the absurdity hit me. Likewise, after 40 years of working out religiously, that's out the window now. Again, what's the point? Now, every decision about how to spend the next hour reminds me of Elaine in that "Seinfeld" episode where she had to constantly evaluate whether her boyfriends were really "sponge worthy."

Can you see how that frame of mind would make a session of NgonDro more potent?

The actual formal meditation of death has more elements than that, but he seemed to have covered parts of it pretty well. For instance I don't think the Seinfeld reference is necessary for a Buddhist to contemplate in particular. But then again, I've never seen that episode, so maybe it is!

Mods: that quote was from a CNN article, in case there's a copyright policy or issue.

WOW!
That was really profound!

[TaTa]

Before you start each session of your NgonDro practice, you're supposed to contemplate 'The Four Thoughts', one of which is death.

The following is an excerpt from William Van Poyck, who wrote it on death row shortly before being executed:

I've already thrown or given away 95% of my personal property, the stuff that for years seemed so important. All those great books I'll never get to read; reams and reams of legal work I've been dragging around, and studying, for two decades and which has suddenly lost its relevance.

My magazines and newspapers stack up unread; I have little appetite to waste valuable, irreplaceable hours reading up on current events. Does it really matter to me now what's happening in the Middle East, or on Wall Street, or how my Miami Dolphins are looking for the upcoming new season? What's the point? Ditto the TV; I'm uninterested in wasting time watching programs that now mean nothing in the grand scheme of things.

The other day I caught myself reaching for my daily vitamin. Really?, I wondered, as the absurdity hit me. Likewise, after 40 years of working out religiously, that's out the window now. Again, what's the point? Now, every decision about how to spend the next hour reminds me of Elaine in that "Seinfeld" episode where she had to constantly evaluate whether her boyfriends were really "sponge worthy."

Can you see how that frame of mind would make a session of NgonDro more potent?

The actual formal meditation of death has more elements than that, but he seemed to have covered parts of it pretty well. For instance I don't think the Seinfeld reference is necessary for a Buddhist to contemplate in particular. But then again, I've never seen that episode, so maybe it is!

Mods: that quote was from a CNN article, in case there's a copyright policy or issue.

Amazing. I can only imagine the deep realization that milarepa had of the four thoughts to dedicate his life to dharma the way he did.

"It was fear of death what drive me to the mountains to meditate. Ive meditated on death till i realized the inmortal state of my mind."

PD: Love seinfeld

[smcj]

PD: Love Seinfeld

Ok, then what does "sponge worthy" mean in terms of Elaines boyfriends?

[Nilasarasvati]

She has a finite quantity of her favorite birth control (sponge) which has ceased to be manufactured.
All her future prospective boyfriends are measured against this impossible criteria of whether they are sponge-worthy or not.

[smcj]

She has a finite quantity of her favorite birth control (sponge) which has ceased to be manufactured.
All her future prospective boyfriends are measured against this impossible criteria of whether they are sponge-worthy or not.

Ok, I get it, and I like it. Does seem like a good analogy for budgeting finite resources like time. I don't know if I will want to incorporate it into my formal contemplation of death, but it may end up like trying to not think about a pink elephant. The more you try not to, the worse it gets!