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 Post subject: Re: Ngondro
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:41 pm 
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Hi,

I noticed above that deepbluehum posted that the number counting (in ngondro, I'm guessing) started in the 13th C. I'm curious about the history of this number counting and I wasn't sure that people were doing ngondro in the 13 C. so if there are any leads about this I would appreciate hearing about it.

So if deepbluehum or anyone else knows about these topics please let me know.

Thank you!


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 Post subject: Re: Ngondro
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:10 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am
Posts: 12736
zimpickens wrote:
Hi,

I noticed above that deepbluehum posted that the number counting (in ngondro, I'm guessing) started in the 13th C. I'm curious about the history of this number counting and I wasn't sure that people were doing ngondro in the 13 C. so if there are any leads about this I would appreciate hearing about it.

So if deepbluehum or anyone else knows about these topics please let me know.

Thank you!



Hi Zim:

People did Ngondro, but the overall systematization of Ngondro seems to be a rather nineteenth century phenomena that spread from Kagyu to the other two schools i.e. Nyingma and Sakya. For example, the massive 350 folio commentary on the Lam 'bras preliminaries authored by Zimog Tulku in the nineteenth century was explicitly influenced by Kun bzang bla ma'i zhal lung. Before this text, there was no separate Sakya Ngondro commentary. And the first independent Ngondro text in Sakya was written by Dezhung Rinpoche.

However, there was ngondro from an ancient period of time. For example, the klong gsal nyi ma 'bar ma rgyud [which probably dates to the 13th century and is the root tantra for the mkha' 'gro snying thig] has a fully elaborated ngondro from chapters 63-75. For example, the refuge chapter, 67, does not give a number. Chapter 73 specifies doing Vajrasattva for 21 days, for example.

In general, I think the idea of doing 100,000 thousand comes from the idea of reciting mantras 100,000 times in the gsar ma tantras.

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 Post subject: Re: Ngondro
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:59 am 
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smcj wrote:
I just joined DW. I can't tell you how nice it is to see a thread with 186 posts regarding Ngondro/prostrations. It's heartwarming. Thanks everybody. I'll go through the entire thread at a later date. :namaste:


Amen, ditto, and EMAHO!

Just started ngondro myself, and find myself backpedaling from the prostrations a bit to focus on the Four Thoughts, since that's what my root guru told me to do (especially contemplating the fourth: the Unsatifactoriness of Samsara).

Also, a technical question for those who might know:

I was practicing the 17th Karmapa's text, Ngondro for Our Current Day, after getting permission to do so despite getting the lung for the 9th Karmapa's Chariot. Now that I have the latter, I find that I've gotten used to the first refuge field visualization and prostration prayer.

Is it sacrilege to revert back to NFOCD since I was inspired to do more of the practice with that text?

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"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, it happens that a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་རཱ་ག་ཨ་སྱ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།
ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།


:namaste:


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 Post subject: Re: Ngondro
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:46 pm 
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Quote:
Is it sacrilege to revert back to NFOCD since I was inspired to do more of the practice with that text?

Ask your teacher!

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A human being has his limits. And thus, in every conceivable way, with every possible means, he tries to make the teaching enter into his own limits. ChNN


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