Tibetan Interest in EA Buddhism

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Astus
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Tibetan Interest in EA Buddhism

Postby Astus » Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:30 pm

Why is it that Tibetan Buddhists are hardly ever care about East Asian Buddhism? We can see that in China, Korea and Japan there are newer groups appearing in the name of a Tibetan school just like in Western countries. Even before the 50s there were Chinese and Japanese Buddhists and scholars studying Tibetan Buddhism, some of them becoming Vajra masters (e.g. Yogi Chen, Nan Huaijin). Also large number of Tibetan texts have been translated to Chinese and Japanese. And if we look at the Western situation, those who follow a Tibetan lineage show little interest in understanding East Asian Buddhism, perhaps because they simply identify it with Zen just as they did in Tibet a thousand years ago (and do today without considering time as in Namkhai Norbu's "Dzogchen and Zen" essay). In China the Mantrayana (both EA and Tibetan forms) are considered part of general Buddhism that one may study. On the other hand, it seems that within Tibetan Buddhism the existence of East Asian Buddhism is completely ignored. Why?
Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.



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Indrajala
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Re: Tibetan Interest in EA Buddhism

Postby Indrajala » Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:48 pm

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

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Malcolm
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Re: Tibetan Interest in EA Buddhism

Postby Malcolm » Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:16 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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Indrajala
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Re: Tibetan Interest in EA Buddhism

Postby Indrajala » Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:30 pm

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

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Nicholas Weeks
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Re: Tibetan Interest in EA Buddhism

Postby Nicholas Weeks » Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:43 pm

The Chinese never did have a practice lineage of Highest Yoga tantra, only lower types of tantra. So why bother with the "inferior" tantras, not to mention plain old Chinese sutrayana, think Tibetans. Some hubris is probably there. On the other hand Emperors of China often looked to Tibet for "superior" Buddhist teachers.

Everybody wants the BEST - never mind if it fits us well.
A bodhisattva does not become weary of evil beings nor does he commit the error of bringing forth thoughts inclined to reject them and cast them aside. Avatamsaka Sutra, ch. 25

plwk
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Re: Tibetan Interest in EA Buddhism

Postby plwk » Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:53 pm


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Malcolm
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Re: Tibetan Interest in EA Buddhism

Postby Malcolm » Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:04 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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Indrajala
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Re: Tibetan Interest in EA Buddhism

Postby Indrajala » Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:37 pm

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

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Malcolm
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Re: Tibetan Interest in EA Buddhism

Postby Malcolm » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:07 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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Anders
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Re: Tibetan Interest in EA Buddhism

Postby Anders » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:07 pm

Tibetan Buddhism strikes me as more doctrinally fixed/focused than east-Asian Buddhism. And thus, is probably more reluctant to absorb new input to its doctrinal outlook. And probably doubly so considering such input is informed by the lower sutrayana, itself a fixed lens for analysis that in many ways fails to capture the intricacies of east-Asian Mahayana. And in many cases, Indian Mahayana too, for that matter.

Chinese Mahayana is in many ways a more diffuse entity than Tibetan Buddhism and thus probably more receptive to new influences, of which Tibetan Buddhism present a wealth of to draw from.
"Even if my body should be burnt to death in the fires of hell
I would endure it for myriad lifetimes
As your companion in practice"

--- Gandavyuha Sutra

Kyosan
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Re: Tibetan Interest in EA Buddhism

Postby Kyosan » Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:28 pm

Last edited by Kyosan on Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:58 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Kyosan
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Re: Tibetan Interest in EA Buddhism

Postby Kyosan » Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:52 pm

I think there are several reasons why most Tibetans would rather practise Tibetan Buddhism over other forms:

Like others have said, the belief that Tibetan Buddhism is better than other forms, whether it is true or not.

Tibetan Buddhism is what they are familiar with and is likely what their parents practiced.

It's easier for them to practice Tibetan Buddhism because they are living among others doing the same.

In Tibet they have access to teachers of Tibetan Buddhism, but maybe not teachers of other forms.

They might feel like outsiders practicing something different, even though it is still Buddhism.

They might feel that they are betraying their heritage.
:namaste:

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Astus
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Re: Tibetan Interest in EA Buddhism

Postby Astus » Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:01 pm

Kyosan,

I don't think they should convert to any EA school, that's not really the question I think. But rather the interest in other forms of Buddhism. For instance I've heard about a plan that they translated the Pali Canon to Tibetan. That's great. However, I don't see Tibetan teachers addressing the issue of other Buddhist schools outside of the Tibetan ones. They are good to discuss Hinayana, Mahayana, Kagyu, Sakya, etc. but no mention of Pure Land, Chan, Tiantai or Shingon. Maybe they haven't heard about them? I doubt that, especially as many know English and even Chinese. To give an example, it is not expected at all from a Nyingma master to become a Gelug or Kagyu lama but definitely he should be somewhat familiar with their teachings, especially when they do some comparisons between the teachings.
Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.



User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 24173
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Tibetan Interest in EA Buddhism

Postby Malcolm » Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:17 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 24173
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Tibetan Interest in EA Buddhism

Postby Malcolm » Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:18 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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Nicholas Weeks
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Location: California

Re: Tibetan Interest in EA Buddhism

Postby Nicholas Weeks » Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:42 pm

I have yet to find online Namkhai Norbu's "Dzogchen and Zen" booklet. If anyone knows where it (a PDF?) might be or can summarize his points about the differences or similarities, that would be helpful.
A bodhisattva does not become weary of evil beings nor does he commit the error of bringing forth thoughts inclined to reject them and cast them aside. Avatamsaka Sutra, ch. 25

Enochian
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Re: Tibetan Interest in EA Buddhism

Postby Enochian » Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:48 pm

There is an ever-present freedom from grasping the mind.

Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.

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Nicholas Weeks
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Re: Tibetan Interest in EA Buddhism

Postby Nicholas Weeks » Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:49 pm

A bodhisattva does not become weary of evil beings nor does he commit the error of bringing forth thoughts inclined to reject them and cast them aside. Avatamsaka Sutra, ch. 25

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Malcolm
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Re: Tibetan Interest in EA Buddhism

Postby Malcolm » Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:27 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

User avatar
Anders
Posts: 1076
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:39 pm

Re: Tibetan Interest in EA Buddhism

Postby Anders » Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:28 pm

"Even if my body should be burnt to death in the fires of hell
I would endure it for myriad lifetimes
As your companion in practice"

--- Gandavyuha Sutra


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