A question of music appreciation

[noisemonkey]

hiya

I'm trying to help a friend of mine write his uni dissertation which is about how music brings people together and was wondering if you could point me in the direction of sutras/Gosho that are relevant? I've had a look through the Gosho and Lotus Sutra but mainly music is mentioned as an offering to the Buddha rather than what my mate is looking for. All info appreciated

[Nosta]

I tought that Buddha advised against music and dancing if you were a monk or a lay person trying to follow the Path.

[zamotcr]

I tought that Buddha advised against music and dancing if you were a monk or a lay person trying to follow the Path.

A lay following the path should follow only the 5 precepts, with that is enough for lay practitioners. Some people will take more, but that is only optional.

[Ayu]

Maybe in the times of Buddha Shakiamuni the music was not uplifting very much.
In the sutras music is regarded as something disturbing for the peace of mind. But this addresses to the people who search for peace in the forrest and who reduce the sensual input...
I think, how people get together nicely by making music together, feeling good, this is not a teaching in the sutras. For well-being Buddha taught how to renounce.

But on my way i do music also, because i'm able to and people like it.

[Jikan]

Direct your friend to the topic of Shomyo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sh%C5%8Dmy%C5%8D

[Johnny Dangerous]

My take on the negative view of music/entertainment etc. is that it's one thing to watch a play, view a of piece of art, or listen to music as just passing entertainment, kind of like casual sex or something solely to rev up the senses, really just for shallow fun. I can see trying to avoid that kind of thing in terms of music, especially for a renunciate, it seems pretty much mandatory.

For us who are not renunciates, it's a different thing to view of piece of art, music, theatre etc. as something that depicts a truth of some kind, conventional or otherwise..seen in that light, I don't think it's bad thing at all. Like anything though, it's less about what you are viewing or listening to (though I don't know, can you find truth in Justin Bieber or Katy Perry?), and more about your relationship to it.

On the original question, I think to answer it we need to know what you mean by "bringing people together".

[Nosta]

Johhny, I agree with you! Your toughts are showing the other side of my view. When I explained myself I was not giving the complete view, because I was just centering in the renounce for mundane life.

Thanks for your post

[PorkChop]

I have to wonder if the negative views of music and dancing are extra-stressed due to dealing with the "competitors."
Krishna dancing with the Gopis (cow-herding girls who serve him in bhakti) out in the forest, under the stars is a big running theme in the Puranic faiths.
Also, Shiva serves as the Cosmic Dancer (Nataraja) - dancing the dances of creation & destruction, and Shiva & Kali appear in stories having dance competitions - these are big themes in Shaivism.
I could see them abstaining from any dancing as to avoid association.

[illarraza]

I have to wonder if the negative views of music and dancing are extra-stressed due to dealing with the "competitors."
Krishna dancing with the Gopis (cow-herding girls who serve him in bhakti) out in the forest, under the stars is a big running theme in the Puranic faiths.
Also, Shiva serves as the Cosmic Dancer (Nataraja) - dancing the dances of creation & destruction, and Shiva & Kali appear in stories having dance competitions - these are big themes in Shaivism.
I could see them abstaining from any dancing as to avoid association.

Nichiren Daishonin taught that the Bodhisattvas of the Earth emerged dancing for joy.

illarrazza

[noisemonkey]

I have to wonder if the negative views of music and dancing are extra-stressed due to dealing with the "competitors."
Krishna dancing with the Gopis (cow-herding girls who serve him in bhakti) out in the forest, under the stars is a big running theme in the Puranic faiths.
Also, Shiva serves as the Cosmic Dancer (Nataraja) - dancing the dances of creation & destruction, and Shiva & Kali appear in stories having dance competitions - these are big themes in Shaivism.
I could see them abstaining from any dancing as to avoid association.

Nichiren Daishonin taught that the Bodhisattvas of the Earth emerged dancing for joy.

illarrazza

which Gosho or Sutra translation is that from?

[dude]

...and if persons...
should with reverent minds make offerings
of flowers, incense....or if they employ persons to make music
striking drums or blowing horns or conch shells
playing pipes, flutes, zithers, harps,
balloon guitars, cymbals and gongs
and if these many kinds of wonderful notes
are intended wholly as an offering
or if one with a joyful mind
sings a song in the praise of the Buddha's virtue
even if it is just one small note
then all who do these things have attained the buddha way

- Lotus Sutra

[Ayu]

...and if persons...
should with reverent minds make offerings
of flowers, incense....or if they employ persons to make music
striking drums or blowing horns or conch shells
playing pipes, flutes, zithers, harps,
balloon guitars, cymbals and gongs
and if these many kinds of wonderful notes
are intended wholly as an offering
or if one with a joyful mind
sings a song in the praise of the Buddha's virtue
even if it is just one small note
then all who do these things have attained the buddha way

- Lotus Sutra

Thank you

[dude]

hiya

I'm trying to help a friend of mine write his uni dissertation which is about how music brings people together and was wondering if you could point me in the direction of sutras/Gosho that are relevant? I've had a look through the Gosho and Lotus Sutra but mainly music is mentioned as an offering to the Buddha rather than what my mate is looking for. All info appreciated

Nichiren does quote Confucius in one Gosho passage as having said that music and propriety are fundamental, and the proper norms should be established on those before lesser rules of conduct are addressed.