Question concerning NBAA and the Eternal Buddha

[Shingyo]

Hello all!
It has been a couple years since I have been back here. Truth-be-told, life happened and I veered away from Buddhism entirely. Well, within the last couple weeks, I have come back to my practice of NMRK and I feel better with myself and my place in life more than I have in a long time.
All that said, I still don't really know much about the details. Well... that isn't completely true. I have read the Gosho's (am rereading them now), I have frequently read the Lotus Sutra, and am happy doing so.
However I came across a Nichiren organization called the NBAA (Nichiren Buddhist Association of America) and they have quite a bit of information on their site about their views, why they hold those same views, and the information appears to be well thought out. If there is any obvious problems with their content, I am not knowledgeable enough to identify it.
What brings me here though is they have an "Organizational Differentiation Chart" here: http://www.nichirenbuddhist.org/LearnBu ... hart3.html
It contrasts the groups of the NBAA (themselves), SGI, Kempon Hokke Shu, Nichiren Shoshu, and Nichiren Shu. Showing what their views are on many different topics and practices. Sometimes there will be details given as to those differences and why they are in agreement or not.
Something that caught my eye is their views regarding the identity of the Eternal Buddha. In their chart on this subject (reformatted below for convenience), it shows:

Who is the true/original Buddha?
NBAA: The eternal nature of life as revealed in the 16th chapter of the Lotus Sutra. In other words, the Buddha nature inherent in all living beings, including ourselves and every other living thing around us.

SGI: Nichiren/ ordinary people who embrace the Mystic Law

Kempon Hokke: Shakyamuni

Nichiren Shoshu: Nichiren

Nichiren Shu: Shakyamuni

Their interpretation appears at first blush to be quite different from the other groups they compare themselves to and it gave me pause. On their chart, that answer is linked to a page with further details of why they hold that view. http://www.nichirenbuddhist.org/LearnBu ... uddha.html

They mention a couple things that I just find intriguing. They say:

...Nichiren says that the original Buddha is the Gohonzon, Namu-Myoho-Renge-Kyo.* In other words, the original Buddha is our own Buddha nature -- the one within us all. The buck stops there. That is the answer. We don't need to try to figure out what he "really" meant by that. We don't need to read into what he said by saying that even though the original Buddha was the enlightenment within Shakyamuni, Shakyamuni was the original Buddha because he was the person who was one with it. Or that Nichiren was really the original Buddha because he was one with it. Buddhism isn't Christianity or deism anymore. There is no son of God who is also God. We're all one with Myoho-Renge-Kyo when we chant and attain enlightenment. It is the enlightenment within each of us that allows us to teach other people. And as we become more and more enlightened, OUR teachings become better and better, meaning more and more capable of leading others to ever higher levels of enlightenment.
...
* Any references Nichiren made to the true Buddha, original Buddha, or Buddha of the "Life Span"' chapter are actually referring to the Gohonzon, as is expressed by the following passages:

"Therefore, the two Buddhas, Shakyamuni and Many Treasures, are Buddhas who are functions [of Myoho-renge- kyo]. It is Myoho-renge-kyo that is the true Buddha." (Nichiren - "The True Aspect of All Phenomena", WND 384)

"Though this mandala has but five or seven characters, it is the teacher of all Buddhas throughout the three existences and the seal that guarantees the enlightenment of all women." (Nichiren - "On Offering Prayers to the Mandala of the Mystic Law", WND 414)

"Concerning the debt owed to the Law, the Law is the teacher of all Buddhas. It is because of the Law that the Buddhas are worthy of respect. Therefore, those who wish to repay their debt to the Buddha must first repay the debt they owe to the Law." (Nichiren - "The Four Debts of Gratitude", WND 44)

"Now that we have entered the Latter Day of the Law, an object of devotion should be made of the original Buddha flanked by his original attendants..." (Nichiren - "On Establishing the Four Bodhisattvas as the Object of Devotion", WND 977)

"Those who have received either the teachings prior to the Lotus Sutra or the theoretical teaching may in a certain sense attain the stage of perfect enlightenment, but when seen in terms of the true Buddha of the 'Life Span' chapter of the essential teaching, such people are still in the company of the deluded or in the rank of worthy persons." (Nichiren - "The Entity of the Mystic Law", WND 428)

"The wise men and scholars of the various schools are first of all confused as to [the nature of the Buddhas of ] their own school, and more fundamentally, they are ignorant of [the Buddha of ] the 'Life Span' chapter of the Lotus Sutra." (Nichiren - "The Essence of the 'Life Span' Chapter" WND 183) He could not have been saying that all of these Buddhist scholars were ignorant of the "Life Span" chapter itself or of Shakyamuni. The Lotus Sutra is and was widely known and adhered to among Buddhist scholars. Nichiren must either be talking about his own teaching of chanting Namu-Myoho-Renge-Kyo or something more ethereal, like the Buddha nature.

"In the more than twenty-two hundred years since the Buddha’s passing, no one has yet fully explained and spread the Lotus Sutra exactly as the sutra teaches. ... Those who become Nichiren’s disciples, however, can understand it without difficulty. In the entire land of Jambudvipa, there has never before been a hall or pagoda that produced the image of Shakyamuni Buddha of the 'Life Span' chapter of the Lotus Sutra. How could such an image fail to appear now?" (Nichiren - "The Unmatched Blessings of the Law" WND 974) From the context of this writing, this passage could only be referring to one of three things: Nichiren's own teachings over those over Shakyamuni (people can only understand Shakyamuni through Nichiren), the propagation of the phrase Namu-Myoho-Renge-Kyo itself, or the Gohonzon Nichiren inscribes (which, again, has Namu-Myoho-Renge-Kyo down the center).

"During this period of twenty-two hundred and more years, worthy rulers and sage rulers have honored painted images or wooden images of Shakyamuni, the lord of teachings, as their principal object of devotion. But although they have made depictions of the Buddhas of the Hinayana and the Mahayana teachings; of the Flower Garland, Nirvana, and Meditation sutras; of the theoretical teaching of the Lotus Sutra and of the Universal Worthy Sutra; of the Mahavairochana and the other True Word sutras; and of the Buddhas Shakyamuni and Many Treasures of the 'Treasure Tower'chapter, the Shakyamuni Buddha of the 'Life Span' chapter has never been depicted in any mountain temple or monastery anywhere. It is very difficult to fathom why this should be." (Nichiren - "On Rebuking Slander of the Law and Eradicating Sins" WND 439)

Again, I am fairly ignorant about these things still as far as the details go. So I wonder, can anyone tell me if their logic is sound? Do they have very incorrect understanding of these things? If you wish to look at the chart in more detail, what other things would you say they have wrong or correct about their own views or those of other groups?
I have NO dog in this fight. I am simply looking for understanding. Even doing this outside of a group, I would like to have a better comprehension and I felt that (as long as their information on other groups was correct) their chart would be a decent starting point.

My apologies for the length of this post. Again, I have no preconceived notions. If NBAA is found to be pretty awesome all around, great! If they are shown to be some crack-pots pretending to know what they are talking about... great! I would love to know that.

Thank you for your time and I look forward to your thoughts.

[Queequeg]

Welcome back!

If you wish to look at the chart in more detail

OMG; TL;DR.

That wall of text is not inviting.

The eternal nature of life as revealed in the 16th chapter of the Lotus Sutra. In other words, the Buddha nature inherent in all living beings, including ourselves and every other living thing around us.

I'm not sure what these two sentences are saying.

It actually sounds like SGI to me...

[Shingyo]

Welcome back!

If you wish to look at the chart in more detail

OMG; TL;DR.

That wall of text is not inviting.

The eternal nature of life as revealed in the 16th chapter of the Lotus Sutra. In other words, the Buddha nature inherent in all living beings, including ourselves and every other living thing around us.

I'm not sure what these two sentences are saying.

It actually sounds like SGI to me...

Thank you for the welcome Queequeg! I always have valued and enjoyed your input here.

I apologize for their wall of text... or were you referring to mine? I have difficulty in cutting things short.

I regretfully don't know enough about SGI as I started independent and have no real experience with any groups. As for what those two sentences are saying, my interpretation is that the Mystic Law of the Lotus Sutra itself is the Original/Eternal Buddha, not Nichiren, Shakyamuni, etc. Much like some force that permeates all existence... much like the Tao of Taoism. Otherwise, I am right there with you.

[Queequeg]

No, not you, the chart you linked to.

Its really difficult to talk about the Buddha. However, we should be careful about describing the Buddha simply as a force or something permeating phenomena.

There are many many many resources you can consult for a description of Buddha. There are, out on these fora, individuals who might be able to point you in directions regarding the Buddha - though not necessarily from a Nichiren/Lotus perspective.

I'd suggest looking around for description of Buddha rather than taking some vague statements off some random website... including this one.

Buddha is profound... I am suspect of any anon on a website who tries to sum it up so easily...

Sorry that's not more helpful...

[Shingyo]

No worries Queequeg. You were plenty helpful.

I admit I do hope others chime in with their opinions on the chart if they have seen it before, or looked through it more.

And please understand, while I did use the phrase "like some force that permeates all existence" for their view of the Buddha, that is only what I took from their comments even if a poor interpretaion. That is not a reflection of my own views. I am still figuring all this out.

I will happily look for other resources on the subject as you suggested, although I would love to also look at anything you could point out if you are willing.

Regardless, I appreciate your thoughts and comments.

[gohonzon]

Hello there, Nichiren Shoshu member here.

There are many interpretations of the Buddha. It is the impermanence and openness of that definition that spans centuries of Buddhist studies.

In Nichiren Shoshu, we revere the True Buddha as Nichiren. We do recognize that both Nikko Shonin and Nichiren paid homage to Shakyamuni Buddha at many points of the gosho, this is undisputed---without Shakyamuni, we have no Lotus Sutra---the core teaching of our faith---but the revelation of Nichiren as Primordial Buddha is also present in our documents, Kuon Ganjo, time without beginning and the Casting and Revealing the True Self at the Tatsunokuchi hour of persecution cements our teaching that the Eternal Buddha is Nichiren FOR the modern age. This is all linked to the perpetuity of time, karma and the power of the Dai Gohonzon. (different topic) What is also true is that we highly revere both Nichiren and Shakyamuni. The level of this devotion varies from one member to another, but both are definitely revered along with all the gods in the Gohonzon. Some atheists/non-traditionalists disagree or question this, its quite OK. My definition here is very generalised and I don't have much patience or energy to explain further, so you need to ask a Nichiren Shoshu priest to detail it. thats their job

Soka Gakkai also shares this view, on a "minimalized" extent. After their excommunication in 1991, they held true that Nichiren is the Eternal Buddha yes.... but they also widened their definition to say that all common mortals, like you and me are automatically Buddhas if we try our best to believe in Nam Myoho Renge Kyo. In my personal experience, Soka Gakkai leaders have told me that A Buddha is someone who is kind and shows appreciation and helps others, nothing special and nothing more. In the 1970's, one of the most controversial issues was the belief among some Soka Gakkai members that Ikeda Daisaku is designated as the True Buddha, or a manifestation of Nichiren Daishonin himself. This contributed to their cult status and angered our priests who have never taught such beliefs, not even the High Priest is to be considered the Daishonin himself. This is not traditional nor orthodox belief, more like Americanised definitions to cater to "less" distinct, more mass appealing, rather than the hardcore beliefs *intently* taught by the Nichiren Shoshu Temple, which they previously sourced their beliefs to. Nowadays, their definition of a Buddha is someone who is simply kind, and happy and helps others and plays civil and peaceful in society... Like a "Kumbaya" person and that Nichiren is *NOT* a supernatural deity, god or being. They also now dismiss any supernatural abilities/instances caused by Nichiren during his lifetime----demoting them to superstitious/myths/legends/optional to believe like King Arthur and the Round Table so it will easily appeal to new and common members. So If you need to clarify where they stand on this, you must contact an SGI community center/Buddhist Center/Kaikan/Hall---whatever they call themselves nowadays to reconfirm. they are usually helpful. Hope this helps.

Cant speak for the other sects so go ask them.

[markatex]

I've seen that chart before, but I don't know anything about this organization. Are they wrong about the Eternal Buddha? It depends on who you ask.

I have some issues with their interpretation of the Eternal Buddha as an impersonal law, separate from the person of Shakyamuni. The Trikaya in its entirety being eternal is kind of a key point in Nichiren's understanding of the Buddha; they seem to be singling out one part of it.

[Shingyo]

Hello there, Nichiren Shoshu member here.

There are many interpretations of the Buddha. It is the impermanence and openness of that definition that spans centuries of Buddhist studies.
...

Hiya gohonzon!

I greatly appreciate all of the information you gave me. I fully admit to being ignorant of Nichiren Shoshu. I have heard small bits and pieces related to it's history in relation to SGI, similar to what you mentioned. I would certainly love to learn more and I shall work on doing so.

I've seen that chart before, but I don't know anything about this organization. Are they wrong about the Eternal Buddha? It depends on who you ask.

I have some issues with their interpretation of the Eternal Buddha as an impersonal law, separate from the person of Shakyamuni. The Trikaya in its entirety being eternal is kind of a key point in Nichiren's understanding of the Buddha; they seem to be singling out one part of it.

Thank you very much markatex for you comment. I am mildly familiar with the Trikaya and need to definitely study much more. I think I see what you mean about the NBAA seemingly singling out one part.

I definitely have much to learn and grasp if possible. Quite the adventure!

[john perry]

I know that nbaa was associated with one of the three groups years ago. The name of that group was peppered all over the website. I just went to there website and didn't see a thing. They are either still attached to that group and their not mentioning them or else they broke away from them. Even though I didn't look at it thoroughly and look at everything. It looks like they're not part of that group.

[Queequeg]

I will happily look for other resources on the subject as you suggested, although I would love to also look at anything you could point out if you are willing.

I've always been informed by this quote:

The heart of the Buddha’s lifetime of teachings is the Lotus Sutra, and the heart of the practice of the Lotus Sutra is found in the “Never Disparaging” chapter. What does Bodhisattva Never Disparaging’s profound respect for people signify? The purpose of the appearance in this world of Shakyamuni Buddha, the lord of teachings, lies in his behavior as a human being.

-Nichiren, Three Kinds of Treasure

I'm assuming that your inquiry into the Buddha is opening to a life long endeavor of faith, practice and study. In that light, this suggestion is a starting point that will eventually open out into teachings such as the Trikaya distinctions, and the fuller breadth and depth of advanced Buddhist thought.

I would suggest - start at the beginning - who was this man who set the Dharma Wheel turning, inspiring generation after generation of people on the endeavor for enlightenment? See the Man.

Life of Buddha by Bikkhu Nanamoli
It tells the life of the Buddha through excerpts from the Pali Canon.

What the Buddha Taught by Walpola Rahula

Gotama Buddha, Vol. 1 and Vol. 2by Hajime Nakamura

With reservations, I would also suggest Ikeda's biography of Buddha, which casts Buddha in a Nichiren-minded light.

The study would go on from there.

[narhwal90]

Speaking as an SGI member, my preference is for Shakyamuni as the original/eternal with Nichiren reminding us all about the importance of the sutra- acting as the rich man with the burning house, helping those inside to exit. I've yet to hear someone in a meeting propose that Mr Ikeda is a buddha of any sort, though the proposition that everyone has buddha-nature & the practice helps one uncover & manifest it here in this life is very prominent if not central.

Not much interested in eternal or not, mystical powers or not, priestly lineage or not. My experience is that if I do the practice I get the results and if I don't then I don't. Part of the practice for me is to seek out other doctrines, other sects, other practices and even if I don't identify, at least see what might be learned & how I might be of service to those around me.

[Queequeg]

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