Study Group: Kanjin no Honzon sho

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Coëmgenu
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Re: Study Group: Kanjin no Honzon sho

Postby Coëmgenu » Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:14 pm


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Queequeg
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Re: Study Group: Kanjin no Honzon sho

Postby Queequeg » Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:18 pm

“Once you have given up the ghost, everything follows with dead certainty, even in the midst of chaos.”
-Henry Miller

"Language is the liquid that we're all dissolved in.
Great for solving problems, after it creates a problem."
-Modest Mouse

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Minobu
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Re: Study Group: Kanjin no Honzon sho

Postby Minobu » Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:18 pm


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Re: Study Group: Kanjin no Honzon sho

Postby Minobu » Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:26 pm


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Re: Study Group: Kanjin no Honzon sho

Postby Queequeg » Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:41 pm

“Once you have given up the ghost, everything follows with dead certainty, even in the midst of chaos.”
-Henry Miller

"Language is the liquid that we're all dissolved in.
Great for solving problems, after it creates a problem."
-Modest Mouse

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Coëmgenu
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Re: Study Group: Kanjin no Honzon sho

Postby Coëmgenu » Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:48 pm


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Minobu
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Re: Study Group: Kanjin no Honzon sho

Postby Minobu » Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:53 pm


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Re: Study Group: Kanjin no Honzon sho

Postby Minobu » Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:55 pm


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Re: Study Group: Kanjin no Honzon sho

Postby Queequeg » Tue Nov 01, 2016 3:07 am

“Once you have given up the ghost, everything follows with dead certainty, even in the midst of chaos.”
-Henry Miller

"Language is the liquid that we're all dissolved in.
Great for solving problems, after it creates a problem."
-Modest Mouse

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Coëmgenu
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Re: Study Group: Kanjin no Honzon sho

Postby Coëmgenu » Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:07 pm


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Queequeg
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Re: Study Group: Kanjin no Honzon sho

Postby Queequeg » Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:57 pm

Maha kalpa has four phases. These cycle indefinitely.
“Once you have given up the ghost, everything follows with dead certainty, even in the midst of chaos.”
-Henry Miller

"Language is the liquid that we're all dissolved in.
Great for solving problems, after it creates a problem."
-Modest Mouse

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Coëmgenu
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Re: Study Group: Kanjin no Honzon sho

Postby Coëmgenu » Tue Nov 01, 2016 3:04 pm


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Re: Study Group: Kanjin no Honzon sho

Postby Queequeg » Tue Nov 01, 2016 4:01 pm

Oh, don't take my brevity as anything other than the practical limitations of the device I communicate with. Now I'm on a keyboard and can be my more verbose self.

The four kalpas of the Mahakalpa is, as far as I know, standard Mahayana Buddhist cosmology.

One of the Indian sources is in Abhidharmakosa. If you are looking for a concise contemporary explanation of Buddhist cosmology as understood in Japanese Buddhism (which may differ in some respects from Indian sources, but I don't know) check out Buddhist Cosmology

“Once you have given up the ghost, everything follows with dead certainty, even in the midst of chaos.”
-Henry Miller

"Language is the liquid that we're all dissolved in.
Great for solving problems, after it creates a problem."
-Modest Mouse

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Queequeg
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Re: Study Group: Kanjin no Honzon sho

Postby Queequeg » Fri Nov 04, 2016 9:49 pm

“Once you have given up the ghost, everything follows with dead certainty, even in the midst of chaos.”
-Henry Miller

"Language is the liquid that we're all dissolved in.
Great for solving problems, after it creates a problem."
-Modest Mouse

narhwal90
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Re: Study Group: Kanjin no Honzon sho

Postby narhwal90 » Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:38 pm

Nichiren's mutual possession of the 10 worlds argument, along with his basis for explaining it has always made a lot more sense to me than the 3000 realms proposition, if for no other reason than simply multiplying the lengths of some lists together and stating it as a principle doesn't tell me much. If I recall the lists, its the 10 worlds, 10 factors, mutual possession of the 10 worlds (making 100), 3 realms, the product being 3000. I assume the idea is that each element of each list partakes equally of the others which makes sense, but doesn't the Nichiren make the equality and uniformity argument already in his treatment of the 10 worlds, not to mention the 10 factors from the end of Hoben; particularly the consistency of all phenomena?

Which isn't to say I think its somehow wrong or inappropriate, only that it seems to me the proposition has already been well made and (to me) the ichinen sanzen principle seems superfluous or at least brings complexity without (to me) a payoff. Nichiren stresses the point, how it was not known, known but not taught, till he finally taught it. IIRC Dolce makes an argument that Nichiren needed to distinguish his teaching from others, so I am prone to wondering if he pressed the ichinen sanzen argument in an effort to do so. I wouldn't go as far as she to call such efforts "legitimizing" but (please correct me if I'm wrong) it is an argument that distinguishes him from contemporary voices.

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Re: Study Group: Kanjin no Honzon sho

Postby Queequeg » Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:28 pm

“Once you have given up the ghost, everything follows with dead certainty, even in the midst of chaos.”
-Henry Miller

"Language is the liquid that we're all dissolved in.
Great for solving problems, after it creates a problem."
-Modest Mouse

narhwal90
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Re: Study Group: Kanjin no Honzon sho

Postby narhwal90 » Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:40 pm

Lol well thats probably why it slips past me. I read thru these topics from time to time, the "worlds" arguments and mutual posession etc work for me, but ichinen sanzen keeps not. Perhaps i am looking for something different from what it is intended to convey.

narhwal90
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Re: Study Group: Kanjin no Honzon sho

Postby narhwal90 » Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:35 am

Yeah guys I blew it up there on my previous comment. I got carried away with my own argument out of ignorance. Perhaps there is some kind of critique to be made along those lines but I think I need to study the ichinen sanzen proposition before I could say anything useful- and I think my posting above is not. So as an amends I'll be going thru this topic in a lot more detail, hopefully so as to make a useful contribution later on.

Thanks and I offer my apologies to all...

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Queequeg
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Re: Study Group: Kanjin no Honzon sho

Postby Queequeg » Sat Nov 05, 2016 3:10 am

Hey, man, I'm sorry if I came across too abrupt.
This is a heavy gosho. It's one of those writings Nichiren was putting g down his legacy. It's not surprising that we don't understand what he's teaching.
I've been doing a weekly study with some newbies and trying to find a succinct explanation of the ten worlds that has a little more substance without going all out. I can't find anything so far.
I remember being told that this stuff was too complicated, but it didn't seem anyone actually knew enough to authoritative say this. It was just conventional wisdom.
Seems like a self fulfilling prophecy of sorts.
Please don't apologize. I'm sorry for my manner.
“Once you have given up the ghost, everything follows with dead certainty, even in the midst of chaos.”
-Henry Miller

"Language is the liquid that we're all dissolved in.
Great for solving problems, after it creates a problem."
-Modest Mouse

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Minobu
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Re: Study Group: Kanjin no Honzon sho

Postby Minobu » Sat Nov 05, 2016 5:35 pm



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