Can someone help me reconcile please?

UniversalWorthy
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Re: Can someone help me reconcile please?

Postby UniversalWorthy » Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:31 pm

Time is a four-letter-word. ....;)

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rory
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Re: Can someone help me reconcile please?

Postby rory » Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:15 am

Namu Kanzeon Bosatsu
Chih-I:
The Tai-ching states "the women in the realms of Mara, Sakra and Brahma all neither abandoned ( their old) bodies nor received (new) bodies. They all received buddhahood with their current bodies (genshin)" Thus these verses state that the dharma nature is like a great ocean. No right or wrong is preached (within it) Ordinary people and sages are equal, without superiority or inferiority
Paul, Groner "The Lotus Sutra in Japanese Culture"eds. Tanabe p. 58
https://www.tendai-usa.org/

UniversalWorthy
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Re: Can someone help me reconcile please?

Postby UniversalWorthy » Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:42 pm

Rory,

More good stuff. You're assumption that as a buddhist who practices daimoku I would, quite naturally, be contemplating ichinen sanzen is half-correct (with regards to my practice.) Of course I am familiar with the concept ('three thousand realms in one thought moment') as well as meditation on the three truths. However, I am most familiar with them through study. Whether or not I have directly experienced a genuine awakening, I cannot say. I can say that mind is the moon itself or that which sustains life (ie rice) is life itself. I say this in theory and have experienced small awakenings through my perception of oneness and environment, for instance, but these are like tender roots which need watering and nurturing. This is the meaning of aspiration and continuous study. I can also say that these concepts, including unifty of samsara/nirvana as you pointed out, are of course not the sole formulation of Nichiren.

gassho

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rory
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Re: Can someone help me reconcile please?

Postby rory » Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:09 am

gassho Universal Worthy;
here's a very nice article by Jan Nattier, on just how radical the Lotus Sutra was and is, that your study group might enjoy from Tricycle
http://www.tricycle.com/special-section ... -awakening

I worry when people talk a lot about emptiness that they may fall into nihilism, as emptiness means unconditioned dharmas - potential. Not nothing And there is no difference between our mind and the phenomenal world, so it's deeply important to get control of our minds. Do you practice shikan meditation? It's very helpful. 10 minutes of calming and then 20 contemplating a passage from the Lotus Sutra.
with gassho
Rory
Namu Kanzeon Bosatsu
Chih-I:
The Tai-ching states "the women in the realms of Mara, Sakra and Brahma all neither abandoned ( their old) bodies nor received (new) bodies. They all received buddhahood with their current bodies (genshin)" Thus these verses state that the dharma nature is like a great ocean. No right or wrong is preached (within it) Ordinary people and sages are equal, without superiority or inferiority
Paul, Groner "The Lotus Sutra in Japanese Culture"eds. Tanabe p. 58
https://www.tendai-usa.org/

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jikai
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Re: Can someone help me reconcile please?

Postby jikai » Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:44 am

"There are no seperate dharma's in the Three Realms. There is only the operation of the one mind."
"Whoever wishes to benefit beings ought to establish teachings that fit their capacities, expound the dharma in accordance with their capacities, and match the doctrines to them"

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jikai
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Re: Can someone help me reconcile please?

Postby jikai » Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:45 am

"There are no seperate dharma's in the Three Realms. There is only the operation of the one mind."
"Whoever wishes to benefit beings ought to establish teachings that fit their capacities, expound the dharma in accordance with their capacities, and match the doctrines to them"

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beautiful breath
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Re: Can someone help me reconcile please?

Postby beautiful breath » Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:51 am


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Grigoris
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Re: Can someone help me reconcile please?

Postby Grigoris » Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:03 am

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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beautiful breath
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Re: Can someone help me reconcile please?

Postby beautiful breath » Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:53 am


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Grigoris
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Re: Can someone help me reconcile please?

Postby Grigoris » Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:20 pm

I'd personally hedge my bets both ways.
:namaste:
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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beautiful breath
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Re: Can someone help me reconcile please?

Postby beautiful breath » Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:08 pm


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Grigoris
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Re: Can someone help me reconcile please?

Postby Grigoris » Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:14 pm

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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beautiful breath
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Re: Can someone help me reconcile please?

Postby beautiful breath » Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:56 pm


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Grigoris
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Re: Can someone help me reconcile please?

Postby Grigoris » Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:05 pm

dawg.jpg
dawg.jpg (8 KiB) Viewed 3258 times
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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beautiful breath
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Re: Can someone help me reconcile please?

Postby beautiful breath » Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:12 pm


DGA
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Re: Can someone help me reconcile please?

Postby DGA » Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:13 pm

I agree, it's best to find a reliable and trustworthy map, and a guide who knows the territory, and a trustworthy group of fellow-travelers, and just keep going. That's very good practical advice.

That does not negate the doctrinal matter: there is no reason to think only one map is the correct map, only one caravan is going the right way. Especially if you like the map that is called the Lotus Sutra, which teaches that all maps eventually lead to the same goal, even if they appear to have different spots marked on them (apparitional cities for instance). If it leads someone to bodhi, it's a good path for that person, even if it's not necessarily a helpful path for you or him or her.

If one can't accomodate in one's mind the notion that there are 84,000 viable Buddha-gates, and that some of them seem to contradict, and that all of them have value even if not for that person, then I suggest the problem might be with one's mind and not with any one of the Buddha-gates in question. A good remedy? Well, would anyone in this forum object if I suggested a careful and open-hearted reading of the Lotus Sutra?

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Re: Can someone help me reconcile please?

Postby DGA » Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:15 pm


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rory
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Re: Can someone help me reconcile please?

Postby rory » Thu Jun 28, 2012 4:10 am

Actually the Lotus Sutra states explicitly that all former sutras were provisional and there is only the One Vehicle. Chih-I the founder of the Lotus Sutra School also repudiated Ch'an only sitting (shikan taza) as the entire path. It takes calming and then concentration. Since so few succeeded at Tiantai practices, Nichiren Daishonin further refined the practice to the chanting of the title of the Lotus Sutra, something we all can do; rich or poor, smart or dull, well or sick, alone or with company.

This indeed is a practice which requires one-pointed concentration. I chant and visualize the scene at Mt. Ryojusen sitting in front of Shakyamuni Buddha as he preaches the Sutra, surrounded by the various protector deities and bodhisattvas. For even greater concentration I chant mentally. This is a very simple and brilliant practice and indeed leads to Buddhahood, which is probably why it is worldwide and so popular.

Never despise simplicity
:namaste:
rory
ps there is a very nice article by Paul Swanson on Chih-I and Chan
http://nanzan-u.academia.edu/PaulSwanso ... _Chih-kuan
Namu Kanzeon Bosatsu
Chih-I:
The Tai-ching states "the women in the realms of Mara, Sakra and Brahma all neither abandoned ( their old) bodies nor received (new) bodies. They all received buddhahood with their current bodies (genshin)" Thus these verses state that the dharma nature is like a great ocean. No right or wrong is preached (within it) Ordinary people and sages are equal, without superiority or inferiority
Paul, Groner "The Lotus Sutra in Japanese Culture"eds. Tanabe p. 58
https://www.tendai-usa.org/

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Re: Can someone help me reconcile please?

Postby DGA » Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:27 pm

Swanson's book on Tien-Tai philsophy is also first-rate.

I think there's some debate or rather a variety of interpretations on what Chih-i was up to when he put forward his classification of the teachings. It's clear that he preferred some provisional teachings over others (the Prajnaparamita is preferred to the Hinayana*, for instance). My point is that rory's position is plausible (the Ekayana as the one path), but it's not the only plausible interpretation. I'll leave it at that since the original poster's question is now more or less addressed and we're in the Nichiren forum, not the Jikan forum.


*I know this is a controversial term, but it's part of the discourse of Chinese Buddhism and is not intended to disparage any contemporary school's practice.

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rory
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Re: Can someone help me reconcile please?

Postby rory » Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:06 am

Yes the different Tiantai patriarch disagreed, some saw Ekayana as exclusive, some didn't. The traditional Nichiren schools follow the exclusive path the Tendai ones the inclusive path.

I'd love to know how my Tendai brothers here contemplate the Middle; and how you interpret the Middle.
with gassho
Rory
Namu Kanzeon Bosatsu
Chih-I:
The Tai-ching states "the women in the realms of Mara, Sakra and Brahma all neither abandoned ( their old) bodies nor received (new) bodies. They all received buddhahood with their current bodies (genshin)" Thus these verses state that the dharma nature is like a great ocean. No right or wrong is preached (within it) Ordinary people and sages are equal, without superiority or inferiority
Paul, Groner "The Lotus Sutra in Japanese Culture"eds. Tanabe p. 58
https://www.tendai-usa.org/


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