Is exclusive Nembutsu practice required?

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Re: Is exclusive Nembutsu practice required?

Post by Admin_PC »

Coëmgenu wrote:I may be mistaken, because I've never visited an authentic Chinese Pure Land monastery, but I believe that the nominal ordering of most texts of the general Chinese Pure Land/Chan mahayana morning service goes something like this, generally:
Not all groups use the same books of course. The one that Ven Chin Kung's Amitabha Society uses is CE005 from budaedu.org - it has a slightly different schedule, with no Śūraṅgama Dhāraṇī, no Ten Shorter Dhāraṇyah, and no Praise of Avalokiteśvara. Just FYI.
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Re: Is exclusive Nembutsu practice required?

Post by Caoimhghín »

Admin_PC wrote:
Coëmgenu wrote:I may be mistaken, because I've never visited an authentic Chinese Pure Land monastery, but I believe that the nominal ordering of most texts of the general Chinese Pure Land/Chan mahayana morning service goes something like this, generally:
Not all groups use the same books of course. The one that Ven Chin Kung's Amitabha Society uses is CE005 from budaedu.org - it has a slightly different schedule, with no Śūraṅgama Dhāraṇī, no Ten Shorter Dhāraṇyah, and no Praise of Avalokiteśvara. Just FYI.
I stand appropriately corrected.
Then, the monks uttered this gāthā:

These bodies are like foam.
Them being frail, who can rejoice in them?
The Buddha attained the vajra-body.
Still, it becomes inconstant and ruined.
The many Buddhas are vajra-entities.
All are also subject to inconstancy.
Quickly ended, like melting snow --
how could things be different?

The Buddha passed into parinirvāṇa afterward.
(T1.27b10 Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra DĀ 2)
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rory
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Re: Is exclusive Nembutsu practice required?

Post by rory »

Serenity509 wrote:Maybe I created the wrong title for this thread. Saying "Namu Kanzeon Bosatsu" or "Namo Guan Shi Yin Pusa" is itself a Nembutsu practice. The word Nembutsu originally means recollection of the Buddha, which can be applied to any Buddha or Bodhisattva.

If Guanyin is the partner of Amitabha and embodies the compassion of Amitabha, then doesn't taking refuge in Guanyin, by extension, include taking refuge in Amitabha as well? I'm sorry if I've been doing a bad job explaining these things.
Kannon-sama has her own pure land on Mt. Potalaka, so if you chant her name you'll be born there instead of Amida's land, Sukhavati. If you want that it's fine. If you want to be born in Sukhavati you need to chant Amida's name and you still can pray to Kannon sama. I do, I'm a member of Jodo Shu and there is no problem.

The non Pure Land Japanese sects chant the Lotus Sutra chapter on Kannon instead and that's common. So do what you think will be the best practice for your birth.
gassho
Rory
Namu Kanzeon Bosatsu
Chih-I:
The Tai-ching states "the women in the realms of Mara, Sakra and Brahma all neither abandoned ( their old) bodies nor received (new) bodies. They all received buddhahood with their current bodies (genshin)" Thus these verses state that the dharma nature is like a great ocean. No right or wrong is preached (within it) Ordinary people and sages are equal, without superiority or inferiority
Paul, Groner "The Lotus Sutra in Japanese Culture"eds. Tanabe p. 58
https://www.tendai-usa.org/
shaunc
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Re: Is exclusive Nembutsu practice required?

Post by shaunc »

For what it's worth. I consider myself a solitary practitioner of shin buddhism. Kannon is the goddess of compassion and seishi represents wisdom. Amida however has both of those attributes by the truckload.
Once /day I say 10 nembutsu to kannon and 10 to seishi and 10 to Sakyumani. But amida gets a lot more nembutsu than the rest of them put together.
Also unlike a lot of shin Buddhists I do meditate. The main difference being with my meditation and other sects is that i don't hope or expect to achieve enlightenment. I hope that it helps me with deep listening and self evaluation.
The real beauty of shin /pureland buddhism is it's simplicity and the fact that generally speaking there are no right or wrong ways to go about it.
Namu Amida Butsu.
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Re: Is exclusive Nembutsu practice required?

Post by Caoimhghín »

shaunc wrote:For what it's worth. I consider myself a solitary practitioner of shin buddhism. Kannon is the goddess of compassion and seishi represents wisdom. Amida however has both of those attributes by the truckload.
Once /day I say 10 nembutsu to kannon and 10 to seishi and 10 to Sakyumani. But amida gets a lot more nembutsu than the rest of them put together.
Also unlike a lot of shin Buddhists I do meditate. The main difference being with my meditation and other sects is that i don't hope or expect to achieve enlightenment. I hope that it helps me with deep listening and self evaluation.
The real beauty of shin /pureland buddhism is it's simplicity and the fact that generally speaking there are no right or wrong ways to go about it.
Namu Amida Butsu.
I'm not saying this to try to "correct" you or your practice, by the sounds of it you are a much more devout practitioner than I, I hope some of your enthusiasm can rub off on me.

But for the sake of sharing perspectives/knowledge, you listed Kannon/Guanyin/Avalokiteśvara as "goddess of compassion" and "seishi" as "wisdom". Kannon/Guanyin/Avalokiteśvara is also a bodhidattva of wisdom because it is generally believed that the goddess Prajñāpāramitā is also another feminine aspect of Avalokiteśvara like Kannon and Guanyin. For instance, the Heart Sutra is attributed to Kannon/Guanyin/Avalokiteśvara and is a prajñāpāramitā sutra, in fact, the "heart" of the prajñāpāramitā sutras.
Then, the monks uttered this gāthā:

These bodies are like foam.
Them being frail, who can rejoice in them?
The Buddha attained the vajra-body.
Still, it becomes inconstant and ruined.
The many Buddhas are vajra-entities.
All are also subject to inconstancy.
Quickly ended, like melting snow --
how could things be different?

The Buddha passed into parinirvāṇa afterward.
(T1.27b10 Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra DĀ 2)
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Re: Is exclusive Nembutsu practice required?

Post by Admin_PC »

Coëmgenu wrote:But for the sake of sharing perspectives/knowledge, you listed Kannon/Guanyin/Avalokiteśvara as "goddess of compassion" and "seishi" as "wisdom". Kannon/Guanyin/Avalokiteśvara is also a bodhidattva of wisdom because it is generally believed that the goddess Prajñāpāramitā is also another feminine aspect of Avalokiteśvara like Kannon and Guanyin. For instance, the Heart Sutra is attributed to Kannon/Guanyin/Avalokiteśvara and is a prajñāpāramitā sutra, in fact, the "heart" of the prajñāpāramitā sutras.
Interestingly, I was taught that the important aspect of Avalokitesvara giving the Heart Sutra was that it was not only deep wisdom, but an act of compassion, given to help Bodhisattvas cross over to the other shore.

Incidentally, I was also taught that DaiSeishi (Mahasthamaprapta) Bodhisattva is "Great Might" Bodhisattva not because of his wisdom, but due to his continuous, devoted practice. In the Surangama Sutra, Mahasthamaprapta says that it was due to his continuous and exclusive practice of Mindfulness of the Buddha that he was able to reach Awakening.

Probably not any "wrong" with either of these views and just different ways of looking at the same teachings.
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Re: Is exclusive Nembutsu practice required?

Post by Nyedrag Yeshe »

rory wrote:
Serenity509 wrote:Maybe I created the wrong title for this thread. Saying "Namu Kanzeon Bosatsu" or "Namo Guan Shi Yin Pusa" is itself a Nembutsu practice. The word Nembutsu originally means recollection of the Buddha, which can be applied to any Buddha or Bodhisattva.

If Guanyin is the partner of Amitabha and embodies the compassion of Amitabha, then doesn't taking refuge in Guanyin, by extension, include taking refuge in Amitabha as well? I'm sorry if I've been doing a bad job explaining these things.
Kannon-sama has her own pure land on Mt. Potalaka, so if you chant her name you'll be born there instead of Amida's land, Sukhavati. If you want that it's fine. If you want to be born in Sukhavati you need to chant Amida's name and you still can pray to Kannon sama. I do, I'm a member of Jodo Shu and there is no problem.

The non Pure Land Japanese sects chant the Lotus Sutra chapter on Kannon instead and that's common. So do what you think will be the best practice for your birth.
gassho
Rory
Sorry but not according to master Hsuan Hua

"Q: Should I focus on reciting Amitabha Buddha’s name, Guan Shi Yin Bodhisattva’s name, or both?

A: If you like to recite Guan Yin Bodhisattva, Guan Yin Bodhisattva will come to welcome you [to the Pure Land]. If you like to recite Amitabha Buddha, Amitabha Buddha will come to welcome you. Reciting either name is better than not reciting. It is only to be feared that you forget to recite Guan Yin Bodhisattva, and also forget to recite Amitabha Buddha."
http://www.cttbusa.org/amitabha_session ... ession.asp
“Whatever has to happen, let it happen!”
“Whatever the situation is, it’s fine!”
“I really don’t need anything!
~Tsangpa Gyare Yeshe Dorje (1161-1211)
ओं पद्मोष्णीष विमले हूँ फट । ओं हनुफशभरहृदय स्वाहा॥
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔ ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།
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Re: Is exclusive Nembutsu practice required?

Post by Nyedrag Yeshe »

Another text I'd like to share, from teacher Shen Shi'an, from the Kong Meng San Monastery in Singapore. Also read the text by Master Hsuan Hua, from Thousand Buddhas Monastery

"Question: If I am mindful of the name of Guanyin Bodhisattva on my deathbed, would I be able to reach Amituofo’s (Amitabha Buddha) Pure Land?

Answer: If you practise mindfulness of Guanyin Pusa’s name – ‘Namo Guanshiyin Pusa’ (which is the simplest format: ‘Refuge in Guanshiyin Bodhisattva’), with the similar Three Provisions (of Faith, Aspiration and Practice), it is possible to reach Amituofo’s Pure Land too, where Guanyin Bodhisattva ‘stations’ in (while reaching out). Being one of the greatest assistant Bodhisattvas of Amituofo, it is stated in the sutras that she will come forth to guide those mindful of her to his Pure Land too. (Actually, all great Bodhisattvas, having great compassion, will guide us to the Pure Land we wish to go.)

However, a practical consideration is that most Buddhist support-chanting groups (in Singapore), whose help might be sought for, are more used to focusing on chanting Amituofo’s name. However, if you are determined, you can stick to mindfulness of Guanyin Bodhisattva’s name, even if there are support-chanters present, who happen to chant Amituofo’s name, while not knowing your preference, especially if too ill to speak. For those who are not so decided yet, it is encouraged to learn to focus on Amituofo’s name, as it is shorter (and thus easier to focus upon) and logically more ‘directly’ aligned (and less ’roundabout’), since Amituofo’s Pure Land is the place aspired towards.

With ample sincere and regular practice, one’s connection to Amituofo will be deepened. There should be no worry that Guanyin Bodhisattva, whom you might currently feel more close to, is being let down, as Amituofo is her teacher too, and being a great Bodhisattva with great loving-kindness, compassion, rejoice and equanimity, she more than welcomes us to be mindful of him, for practical and wise reasons such as the above. In Amituofo’s Pure Land, she can be met too."
http://purelanders.com/2015/06/12/can-i ... pure-land/

"Q: Should I focus on reciting Amitabha Buddha’s name, Guan Shi Yin Bodhisattva’s name, or both?

A: If you like to recite Guan Yin Bodhisattva, Guan Yin Bodhisattva will come to welcome you [to the Pure Land]. If you like to recite Amitabha Buddha, Amitabha Buddha will come to welcome you. Reciting either name is better than not reciting. It is only to be feared that you forget to recite Guan Yin Bodhisattva, and also forget to recite Amitabha Buddha."
http://www.cttbusa.org/amitabha_session ... ession.asp

I believe that your need to recite Kuan Yin's name, is a virtuous karmic root you have with the bodhisattva, and also with the western pure land! Your should invest and cultivate this connection instead of being somewhat discouraged by people's opinion or sectarian views. I deeply rejoice in your connection to dharma and merits! May it only grow! :anjali:
“Whatever has to happen, let it happen!”
“Whatever the situation is, it’s fine!”
“I really don’t need anything!
~Tsangpa Gyare Yeshe Dorje (1161-1211)
ओं पद्मोष्णीष विमले हूँ फट । ओं हनुफशभरहृदय स्वाहा॥
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔ ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།
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rory
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Re: Is exclusive Nembutsu practice required?

Post by rory »

It's in the Avatamsaka Sutra, Kannon's Pure Land, so those may be latter Pure Land developments and here for Japan Mt. Potalaka is called Fudaraku:
In Japan, Kannon’s paradise is known as Fudarakusen. It is commonly said to be located at the southern tip of India (which supports theories of Kannon’s Indian origin).
http://www.onmarkproductions.com/html/kannon.shtml

Kannon presides over her Pure Land in the South called Fudaraku, an island-mountain paradise. You can catch a glimpse of this magnificent place in paintings that depict the goddess descending the mountain to welcome those who seek her salvation. She is also prominent in sculpture, and her icons grace Buddhist temples all over Japan. Many of these icons have been designated national treasures.
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/community/2 ... -and-pets/
gassho
Rory
Namu Kanzeon Bosatsu
Chih-I:
The Tai-ching states "the women in the realms of Mara, Sakra and Brahma all neither abandoned ( their old) bodies nor received (new) bodies. They all received buddhahood with their current bodies (genshin)" Thus these verses state that the dharma nature is like a great ocean. No right or wrong is preached (within it) Ordinary people and sages are equal, without superiority or inferiority
Paul, Groner "The Lotus Sutra in Japanese Culture"eds. Tanabe p. 58
https://www.tendai-usa.org/
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Re: Is exclusive Nembutsu practice required?

Post by sillyrabbit »

rory wrote:It's in the Avatamsaka Sutra, Kannon's Pure Land...
I don't think that the possibility of birth in Kannon's Pure Land is being denied, but there is just the emphasis on the perfect wisdom, compassion, and equanimity of the Buddhas and Boddhisattvas, and how intentions are vital to causes. If the intention to be reborn in Amitabha's Pure Land is present, the cause is there, even while reciting the name of Kannon, Daiseishi, or others. IMHO, this doesn't contradict the view of emptiness.

Amitabha Buddha, Kannon Bodhisattva, and others...I really can't imagine a position of "No Sukhavati for you!" if the intent to be reborn in Sukhavati is present.
Namo Amitabha Buddha
:hug:
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Re: Is exclusive Nembutsu practice required?

Post by jmlee369 »

rory wrote:It's in the Avatamsaka Sutra, Kannon's Pure Land, so those may be latter Pure Land developments and here for Japan Mt. Potalaka is called Fudaraku:
In Japan, Kannon’s paradise is known as Fudarakusen. It is commonly said to be located at the southern tip of India (which supports theories of Kannon’s Indian origin).
http://www.onmarkproductions.com/html/kannon.shtml

Kannon presides over her Pure Land in the South called Fudaraku, an island-mountain paradise. You can catch a glimpse of this magnificent place in paintings that depict the goddess descending the mountain to welcome those who seek her salvation. She is also prominent in sculpture, and her icons grace Buddhist temples all over Japan. Many of these icons have been designated national treasures.
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/community/2 ... -and-pets/
gassho
Rory
I'm not quite sure if Potalaka is the pure land of Avalokitesvara as the Avatamsaka doesn't explicitly state it that way. In the context of the Avatamsaka, I think it was describing Avalokitesvara as simply dwelling there, in more of an actual nirmanakaya manifestation way, as opposed to the permanent abode of the sambhogakaya. The Limitless Life Sutra states that after Amitabha Buddha's parinirvana, Avalokitesvara will assume the Buddha's place in Sukhavati, so I think it's okay to consider Sukhavati the abode of Avalokitesvara as well.

As for practicing methods associated with Avalokitesvara to attain birth in Sukhavati, while there is no explicit mention of reciting the name leading to birth there, the Great Compassion Dharani Sutra records the bodhisattva as saying: "If those who recite and uphold the Great Compassion Dharani are not born in all the Buddha Lands, I vow not to attain samyaksambodhi." Thus, if someone wishes to be reborn in Sukhavati, they can diligently recite the Great Compassion Dharani and achieve such a goal. The Contemplating Limitless Life Sutra also has visualising Avalokitesvara as the tenth of sixteen contemplations, though it does not mention the recitation of the name as a method.

In the same vein, there are many other practices that guarantee rebirth in Sukhavati, such as the recitation of the Avatamsaka Sutra's final chapter, the Conduct and Vows of Samantabhadra Bodhisattva, or the recitation of the Ushnishavijaya dharani, etc.
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rory
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Re: Is exclusive Nembutsu practice required?

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Jmlee:
I'm not quite sure if Potalaka is the pure land of Avalokitesvara as the Avatamsaka doesn't explicitly state it that way. In the context of the Avatamsaka
This is utterly wrong Any scholarly resource will correct you. "Kuan-yin: The Chinese Transformation of Avalokitesvara Chun-Fang Yu, Columbia University Press 2001 The references to Mt. Potalaka are too numerous to mention but the first is p. 32 that of a sage connected with the holy island Potalaka as seen in the Avatamsaka Sutra I suggest you get this book, either via library loan or purchase and fill the void in your knowledge


SillyRabbit:
. If the intention to be reborn in Amitabha's Pure Land is present, the cause is there, even while reciting the name of Kannon, Daiseishi, or others.
Jmlee:
Thus, if someone wishes to be reborn in Sukhavati, they can diligently recite the Great Compassion Dharani and achieve such a goal.
This is absolutely wrong, in all Pure Land literature the importance of Faith and Vows is always stressed. To be born in Amida's Pure Land you must make a vow to be born there The same with Mt. Potalaka or Medicine Buddha's Lapis Lazuli Pure Land.
The Dharma of recitation of the Buddha's name requires strong determination, for instance, faith [�H], vow [�@] and action [��], which is called Three Sambhara, also known as the Three Essentials [�T��³]. They are also counted as the assets and credits necessary for the rebirth in Pure Land.

Without a vow equals no faith. Vow without action equals no vow. Action without resolve equals no action: it also indicates that the vow is not sincere. An insincere vow means lack of true faith. A sincere vow reveals true faith and vice versa. Whenever the vow is sincere, the action is vigorous and diligent.

The great master Ou I [���q] said, "Whether you are reborn in western Pure Land depends entirely on your faith and your vow; while the class or level of rebirth depends on the extent of recitation practice."
http://www.buddhistdoor.com/OldWeb/bdoo ... each89.htm
gassho
Rory
Namu Kanzeon Bosatsu
Chih-I:
The Tai-ching states "the women in the realms of Mara, Sakra and Brahma all neither abandoned ( their old) bodies nor received (new) bodies. They all received buddhahood with their current bodies (genshin)" Thus these verses state that the dharma nature is like a great ocean. No right or wrong is preached (within it) Ordinary people and sages are equal, without superiority or inferiority
Paul, Groner "The Lotus Sutra in Japanese Culture"eds. Tanabe p. 58
https://www.tendai-usa.org/
sillyrabbit
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Re: Is exclusive Nembutsu practice required?

Post by sillyrabbit »

rory wrote: SillyRabbit:
. If the intention to be reborn in Amitabha's Pure Land is present, the cause is there, even while reciting the name of Kannon, Daiseishi, or others.
Jmlee:
Thus, if someone wishes to be reborn in Sukhavati, they can diligently recite the Great Compassion Dharani and achieve such a goal.
This is absolutely wrong, in all Pure Land literature the importance of Faith and Vows is always stressed. To be born in Amida's Pure Land you must make a vow to be born there The same with Mt. Potalaka or Medicine Buddha's Lapis Lazuli Pure Land.

This is why I mentioned intent, based on that vow. The performance of wholesome deeds, such as recitation of Buddha names or mantras, can be dedicated to the fulfillment of that vow. Is Pure Land literature anything that discusses Amitabha Buddha and Sukhavati? If so, this includes Medicine Buddha's sutra, where he vows to guide those who uphold his name to any Pure Land the devotee aspires to, and stresses Sukhavati specifically, even while having a Pure Land of his own.

The alternative is that the aspiration cultivated in the consciousness of the devotee who dedicates dharma practice to birth in Sukhavati doesn't matter if their lips don't form certain sounds. Not trying to be harsh when I say that this is something I really cannot swallow considering the infinite compassion of Amitabha Buddha, all Buddhas.

Btw, I'm not trying to disparage anyone's practice or faith. In discussing Pure Land traditions, it is helpful to note the efficacy of many different Pure Land practices, that fit many different kinds of people, according to their karma and merit.
Namo Amitabha Buddha
:hug:
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rory
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Re: Is exclusive Nembutsu practice required?

Post by rory »

We're not having an argument, so it's okay to thrash this out. When you said 'intent' I took it as just a mental intent. As you could chant Kannon-sama's name till the cows come home, have an intent to go to Mt. Potalaka but if you don't make a strong vow: eg "I vow to be born in Kannon's Pure Land of Mt. Potalaka" or if unable to speak due to weakness, you can move your lips etc to do so, or sign or write it out on paper if you're deaf...you won't go there. Unless you're a Shinshu follower, which is fine but we need to note for others that they're out of the Pure Land mainstream and most modern Shinshu followers don't believe in a literal pure land and probably reincarnation.

I emphasize a verbal vow, as most people think they're higher level practitioners than they really are and most don't have ability to do this all mentally and make the requisite strong mental vow. Better to be safe than sorry, I chant and vow aloud and have chanted silently with my lips only when in the past I was extremely ill and too weak or when I have a sore throat.

Additionally you add chanting names and mantras. These are two very different things. Chanting Amida's name works because it's a vast karmic exchange, chanting a mantra is different. So they are not the same and don't have the same power. The various pure lands are not the same and some are more difficult to get to. And no you won't get to Sukhavati only chanting Medicine Buddha's name, unless you're dying and suddenly develop deep faith in Amida and chant Namu Amida Butsu but why chance it?

gassho
Rory
Namu Kanzeon Bosatsu
Chih-I:
The Tai-ching states "the women in the realms of Mara, Sakra and Brahma all neither abandoned ( their old) bodies nor received (new) bodies. They all received buddhahood with their current bodies (genshin)" Thus these verses state that the dharma nature is like a great ocean. No right or wrong is preached (within it) Ordinary people and sages are equal, without superiority or inferiority
Paul, Groner "The Lotus Sutra in Japanese Culture"eds. Tanabe p. 58
https://www.tendai-usa.org/
jmlee369
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Re: Is exclusive Nembutsu practice required?

Post by jmlee369 »

Hi Rory,

In the spirit of healthy debate, I hope you won't mind a bit of back and forth on these issues. First, I would like to point out the scriptural references that I made, but to clarify, I will provide some more, along with the Chinese original and my translation (if you don't trust my translations, feel free to ask for a third party translation). Now, as much faith as I have in the Pure Land path, and the guidance of the Pure Land masters of China, sutras will always be the final word for me. The methods of attaining birth the pure land are not limited to the Three Pure Land sutras.
rory wrote:Jmlee:
I'm not quite sure if Potalaka is the pure land of Avalokitesvara as the Avatamsaka doesn't explicitly state it that way. In the context of the Avatamsaka
This is utterly wrong Any scholarly resource will correct you. "Kuan-yin: The Chinese Transformation of Avalokitesvara Chun-Fang Yu, Columbia University Press 2001 The references to Mt. Potalaka are too numerous to mention but the first is p. 32 that of a sage connected with the holy island Potalaka as seen in the Avatamsaka Sutra I suggest you get this book, either via library loan or purchase and fill the void in your knowledge
Regarding the Potalaka, I am not denying that Mt. Potalaka is considered to be Avalokitesvara's abode. I am well aware of the ties between the bodhisattva and the mountain-island. However, the context in which the first link between Mt. Potalaka and Avalokitesvara occurs (the Avatamsaka Sutra's Entering the Dharma Realm chapter) leads me to posit that Avalokitesvara's actual pure land, of the sambhogakaya, is Sukhavati. I am working off the notion that a pure land refers to what is more properly known as a Buddhafield, the world system that is established and inhabited by a Buddha. I will explain my reasoning through scripture.

First, what is the context of the Entering the Dharma Realm chapter? The youth Sudhana is sent to travel in the south of India by Manjusri bodhisattva in search of instructions on the bodhisattva path. He is sent from one kalyanamitra to another, totalling 53 by the end of his journey. Now the reason why I say the location of these kalyanamitras is merely a dwelling place of their nirmanakaya forms and not their pure lands can be seen from the location of Maitreya bodhisattva, who as we know from the sutras has his Pure Land in the inner court of Tusita heaven. This is where Sudhana finds Maitreya in the Avatamsaka:
善男子。於此南方有國名海岸。有園名大莊嚴。其中有一廣大樓閣。名毗盧遮那莊嚴藏。從菩薩善根果報生。從菩薩念力願力自在力神通力生。從菩薩善巧方便生。從菩薩福德智慧生。善男子。住不思議解脫菩薩以大悲心。為諸眾生現如是境界。集如是莊嚴。彌勒菩薩摩訶薩安處其中
[Shrisambhava and Shrimati addressing Sudhana] Virtuous man, to the south of here is a country named Sea Shore, with a park named Great Adornment, and within it is a vast and great pavilion named Vairocana Adornment Treasury. It is born from the bodhisattvas' fruition of virtuous roots. It is born from the bodhisattvas' power of mindfulness, power of vows, power of self-mastery, and power of miracles. It is born from the bodhisattva's skilful means. It is born from the bodhisattva's merits and wisdom. Virtuous man, bodhisattvas dwelling in the inconceivable liberation out of compassion for the sake of all sentient beings manifest such states and gather such adornments. Maitreya bodhisattva mahasttva dwells within it.
As we can see, the tower is a provisional manifestation of Maitreya bodhisattva in the country of Sea Shore, but it is not his pure land. The Avatamsaka mentions Potalaka as follows:
善男子。於此南方有山名補怛洛迦。彼有菩薩名觀自在。

[...]

 海上有山多聖賢  眾寶所成極清淨
 華果樹林皆徧滿  泉流池沼悉具足
 勇猛丈夫觀自在  為利眾生住此山
 汝詣往問諸功德  彼當示汝大方便
[...]
漸次遊行至於彼山。處處求覓此大菩薩。見其西面巖谷之中。泉流縈映樹林蓊鬱。香草柔輭右旋布地。觀自在菩薩於金剛寶石上結加趺坐。無量菩薩皆坐寶石恭敬圍繞。而為宣說大慈悲法。令其攝受一切眾生。

[Vesthila addressing Sudhana] Virtuous man, to the south of here is a mountain named Potalaka, where there is a bodhisattva named Avalokitesvara [...]
Above the seas is a mountain with many arya sages,
Extremely pure for being formed by a mass of jewels,
Covered in abundant flowers and fruits, a forest of trees,
Flowing streams and pools are all replete,
The courageous hero Avalokitesvara
Dwells on this mountain to benefit sentient beings,
You should go there an ask of all qualities,
And he will show you great expedient means
[...]
Steadily traveling towards this mountain, [Sudhana] asked everywhere for this great bodhisattva. He saw within a cliff-valley on its western face flowing streams that sparkled and lush, dense forests. The fragrant and soft grass covered the earth with a rightward turn. Avalokitesvara bodhisattva sat upon a vajra jewel in full lotus. Measureless bodhisattva respectfully surrounded him, all seated on jewels. [Avalokitesvara] spoke the dharma of great love and compassion for them, causing them to gather in all sentient beings.
Again, based on this passage, I will posit that Mt. Potalaka is the earthly abode of Avalokitesvara bodhisattva, but not his pure land. Why? 1) We have seen from the case of Maitreya that in this chapter of the Avatamsaka, the location of a bodhisattva is not neccesarily their pure land. 2) Sudhana can travel to this mountain in southern India while asking for directions from people, an unlikely description for a journey to a pure land. 3) Mt. Potalaka is, obviously, a mountain. However, pure lands are generally conceived as being an entire world system, and free of mountains at that. On this point, I quote Jan Nattier's article "The Realm of Aksobhya: A Missing Piece in the History of Pure Land Buddhism":
Nattier wrote:The absence of mountains is a regular feature of ideal lands in Indian Buddhist literature, including Amitabha's world, the future worlds of the various sravakas predicted to Buddhahood in the Lotus Sutra, and even our own Jambudvipa during the time of the future Buddha Maitreya. Given the centrality of mountains
(and indeed, their positive valence) in Indian cosmographic thought, it seems surprising that they should be entirely absent from these Utopian realms [...]
We can see this in the Limitless Life Sutra:
又其國土,無須彌山,及金剛圍一切諸山,亦無大海、小海、溪渠、井谷,佛神力故,欲見則見
Furthermore in that country, there are no Sumeru mountains nor vajra mountains that surround everything, nor are there great oceans, small oceans, creeks, valleys, [but] by the Buddha's spiritual power, these are seen if desired.
As for asserting Sukhavati as the pure land of Avalokitesvara, I rely on the Karunapundarika Sutra:
善男子。無量壽佛般涅槃已。第二恒河沙等阿僧祇劫後分。初夜分中正法滅盡。夜後分中彼土轉名一切珍寶所成就世界。所有種種莊嚴無量無邊。安樂世界所不及也。善男子。汝於後夜種種莊嚴。在菩提樹下坐金剛座。於一念中間成阿耨多羅三藐三菩提。號遍出一切光明功德山王如來應供正遍知明行足善逝世間解無上士調御丈夫天人師佛世尊。
Virtuous man, after Amitayus Buddha's parinirvana in the latter part of the second asamkhyeya kalpa as numerous as sand in the Ganges river, in the first watch of the night will be the cessation of the proper dharma. In the final watch of the night, that land will change names to World Formed By All Jewels. The variety of adornments will be limitless and boundless. The Sukhavati world will not be able to match it. Virtuous man, you will in the late of the night variously adorned be seated on the vajra seat beneath the bodhi tree and in a moment of thought accomplish anuttarasamyaksambodhi. You will be called Pervasively Emitting All Light Rays Qualities [like a] Mountain King tathagata arhat samyaksambuddha [continues with the ten titles of a Buddha...]
The Limitless Life Sutra also features a similar passage (in the two earliest Chinese translations):
阿彌陀佛至其然後般泥洹者,其蓋樓亘菩薩,便當作佛
Amitabha Buddha having attained parinirvana, Avalokitesvara will become a Buddha
For a scholar's perspective on this passage, you can refer to section 2.3 of this paper (tl;dr Xiao concludes that while the Karunapundarika Sutra passage most likely has an Indian origin, the similar passages in two versions of the Limitless Life Sutra were grafted in by the Chinese and lack Indic parallels).

Now as much as I would like to look up the book by Yu, the libraries in my country offer a very limited selection even through interlibrary loans (at a cost), and I am not particularly inclined to buying academic books with my limited resources.
rory wrote:Jmlee:
Thus, if someone wishes to be reborn in Sukhavati, they can diligently recite the Great Compassion Dharani and achieve such a goal.
This is absolutely wrong, in all Pure Land literature the importance of Faith and Vows is always stressed. To be born in Amida's Pure Land you must make a vow to be born there The same with Mt. Potalaka or Medicine Buddha's Lapis Lazuli Pure Land.

gassho
Rory
I don't think anyone is disagreeing with the idea that people need to develop the intention to be born in Sukhavati. That's why I started off by saying "Thus, if someone wishes to be reborn in Sukhavati." That wish is the vow to be reborn there. Regarding the recitation of the Great Compassion Dharani, the Great Compassion Dharani Sutra itself says the following:
觀世音復白佛言 世尊若諸衆生誦持大悲神呪者 臨命終時 十方諸佛 皆來授手 欲生何等佛土 隨願皆得往生
Avalokitesvara said to the Buddha: "Bhagavan, if any sentient being recites and upholds the Great Compassion Dharani, at the time of their life's end, all the Buddhas of the ten directions will come and offer their hands, and whichever Buddha land the being desires to be born in, they will attain birth there according to their vow.
[...]
誦持大悲神呪者 若不生諸佛國土 我誓不成正覺
If those who recite and uphold the Great Compassion Dharani are not born in all the Buddha Lands, I vow not to attain samyaksambodhi
Reciting the Conduct and Vows of Samantabhadra Bodhisattva chapter also leads to birth in Sukhavati because it includes within it vows to be reborn in Sukhavati.

As for the Usnisavijaya Dharani, the Usnisavijaya Dharani Sutra says:
佛言若人常能日日誦此陀羅尼滿二十一遍 [...] 捨身往生極樂世界
The Buddha said: "If people are constantly able to recite this dharani fully 21 times each day [...] on relinquishing the body will be born in Sukhavati
sillyrabbit
Posts: 136
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2016 3:47 am

Re: Is exclusive Nembutsu practice required?

Post by sillyrabbit »

Rory:
jmlee369 wrote:I don't think anyone is disagreeing with the idea that people need to develop the intention to be born in Sukhavati. That's why I started off by saying "Thus, if someone wishes to be reborn in Sukhavati." That wish is the vow to be reborn there.
This ^^ is all I meant.

Looks like we'll just have to disagree on whether or not there is a distinction between mental intentions and verbal vows, since I'm operating on the premise that the verbal expresses the mental, and the mental expresses that particular seed in the consciousness.
Last edited by Ayu on Fri May 19, 2017 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fixed quote.
Namo Amitabha Buddha
:hug:
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