Some toughts about Pure Land practice; personal experience

[Nosta]

Sometimes dont you feel that your practice is leading nowhere? Sometimes I feel that, because saying Namo Amitabha Buddha many times doesnt change the fact that my life will still the same. I dont see any evidence that the fabric of reality is more than the solidity and suffering we live. Are you sure that there is really a Pure Land? Sometimes I will loose my Faith and tremble, and I dont like it. I still dont see Amitabha in my dreams, I still dont get any glimpses that there is really a Sukhavati, nevertheless I want to believe and many times I do believe.

What do you feel?

[Ayu]

What we "feel" and think must not lead to the right path. Our thoughts and feelings are a big fake often.
That's why I try not to follow every mood I have, but I better try to find role models of human kind and follow their advice.

Nosta, do you think this topic is appropriate in the pure land section? Are you seeking for encouragement or for controversial discussion? The former is good in Pure Land subforum, the latter should be shifted better to Open Dharma subforum.

[Admin_PC]

Nosta,
How often do you read the sutras?
Do you practice prostrations, making offerings, and dedicating the merit?
Or do you just recite Nembutsu?
Expecting things from our practice can be a form of Self Power and can be an obstruction.
Have you ever tried a gratitude practice like Naikan?
Instead of stressing over questions that you can't currently answer, it might be more productive to focus on other aspects, such as deep listening for the workings of Great Compassion in one's life (Monpo), self reflection on all the compassion one receives from the people in one's life (Naikan), learning to be grateful, and accepting power beyond the limited self.

Ayu,
I think he's looking for some support in his practice, trying to overcome his difficulties.
I think it's a fine topic for Pure Land subforum.

[Admin_PC]

PS
If you really want some results from your practice, you should make sure you're following ShanTao's recommendations: 10,000 Nembutsu per day, 15 recitations of the Amitabha (Shorter Sukhavativyuha) Sutra (aspiring for 10,000 total), and all of the other recommendations he gives in the Kannenbomon - Method of Contemplation on Amida.

[Nosta]

Ayu an Porkchop, thanks for answering.

Indeed, this is more kind of encouragement topic, specially in a practical way like Porkchop did.

I never read about the Naikan practice, I will check that.

Thanks for the advice from ShanTao, I will read carefully the link

Ayu, I like that advice: do not let mood affect practice

Again, thank you very much to both of you!

[Admin_PC]

Any time, glad that you find it helpful.

I never read about the Naikan practice, I will check that.

It's a very simple practice, but it can be very life-changing.
You think about each person in your life and you ask yourself these 3 questions:
1. What have I received from __________ ?
2. What have I given to __________ ?
3. What troubles and difficulties have I caused __________ ?

It can really change how you view your life.

[Nosta]

Very interesting! I will try that today.

The link you gave on the other post is really complete! Amazing!

[sth9784]

I could relate to feeling like practice is going nowhere. Every now, and then, I get severely unmotivated, and definitely slack in practice, when I feel like my practice is going nowhere. What helps me, if I realize I am slacking is usually something as simple as reading the Sutras, or incorporating, besides the Nembutsu, the 4 other practices from Master Shan-tao's 'Liturgy for Birth' (http://www.euroshinshu.org/www12.canvas ... raisan.htm).

[Admin_PC]

I could relate to feeling like practice is going nowhere. Every now, and then, I get severely unmotivated, and definitely slack in practice, when I feel like my practice is going nowhere. What helps me, if I realize I am slacking is usually something as simple as reading the Sutras, or incorporating, besides the Nembutsu, the 4 other practices from Master Shan-tao's 'Liturgy for Birth' (http://www.euroshinshu.org/www12.canvas ... raisan.htm).

Shan-tao's great!

[rory]

I could relate to feeling like practice is going nowhere. Every now, and then, I get severely unmotivated, and definitely slack in practice, when I feel like my practice is going nowhere. What helps me, if I realize I am slacking is usually something as simple as reading the Sutras, or incorporating, besides the Nembutsu, the 4 other practices from Master Shan-tao's 'Liturgy for Birth' (http://www.euroshinshu.org/www12.canvas ... raisan.htm).

These are perfectly normal questions, don't worry. Now to help you:
1. do you have a local sangha? Is there a Chinese, Vietnamese temple near you where you could chant with other devout believers. I used to attend a Chinese temple and it was very supportive chanting Amitufo with them.
if not
2. Join an online sangha Jodo Shu and Jodo Shinshu have them. Over at the Jodo Shu google group Rev. Ishikawa holds online streaming services with Dharma talks - that's very supportive.

3. Your practice: at my best I was up to 1,000 Nembutsu a day which took me 40 minutes, so 10,000 is a bit extreme. Do you have juzu? If not get them, if yes, make sure you force yourself to do one round a day, not chanting automatically but with faith.

4. Faith - the Jodo monk who taught me, when I told him I wanted to have faith in Amida but didn't really believe in him, told me that having an aspiration for faith was enough. But then I practiced for 6 years mostly on my own before I really developed a strong unshakeable faith. But I had a wonderful teacher for 2 of those years, that was important.

5. Proof - of course everybody wants proof that's a natural feeling. You can read true stories of Amida here: http://www.amtbweb.org/story_menu.html
In my case I suddenly became very very sick and almost died: that will make you practice and entirely solidified my faith as I felt Amida's golden presence and wasn't afraid to die. But I don't think you want that to happen to you, though I regard it as the most positive and important experience in my life.

6. Inspiring Dharma books do you read them? That's always helpful. Here are some great free ones: http://www.ymba.org/free-books

7. Set a disciplined practice schedule without excuses. Sounds tiresome but you must practice every day to develop strong faith.

8. Have faith that you will develop it.
I think this is enough and helpful
gassho
Rory

[Nosta]

Rory, about Sangha in real life will be very hard for me. As I said in other topics, I live in Portugal, a Catholic country. And I live in a small city with even more close minded people.

Anyway, I think that all the other tips are great, thanks!

[Admin_PC]

I think this is enough and helpful

Awesome advice Rory!

[rory]

Okay, that context helps Nosta as I went from living in New York City to living in the country in Ireland. I understand and sympathize. Here are some things I did. There is a Fo Guang Temple in Lisbon, you might plan to make a trip once a year. Or call them you never know that a practitioner might live near you and you could chant with them, also it's good to say hello to the nuns, they can give you advice on practice.

Also there is a great Shin temple in London Three Wheels :http://threewheels.org.uk/
write to the sensei (I did. Rev. Sato he was incredibly nice and gave me tons of good advice by email)

There is also Jodo Shu in France, if you go to the Jodo Shu google group you can find out the priest's name and write.

Also I believe there is an online Jodo Shinshu correspondance course, you could do that as well. http://jscc.cbe-bca.org/

You also might be surprised that a priest might come and visit you. So do reach out and make these relationships. Communications have changed so much since i lived in Ireland and it's so easy to reach out and write/talk participate.

I will tell you if you don't make an effort to find a teacher/sangha/practice don't expect your faith to grow, it's like a plant you need to take care and nurture it.
gassho
Rory

[Nosta]

Great advices Rory!

Thanks you very much

[rory]

Great advices Rory!

Thanks you very much

my pleasure! I'm really happy to share as I went through similar things living far away.
gassho
Rory

[Jiko]

From my experience, going nowhere is going everywhere.

Dharmavidya, the wonderful teacher here in the UK once said this too me, not sure if it is relevant, but it always helped me when faith wavered or motivation was lacking. "What is faith? To continue to practice even when our beliefs change"

Our beliefs, views, everything will change in this fools mind. Faith can never be a constant feeling. Faith is practice, practice is faith. You have to hold on tight to that one thought of Buddha. Practice is never going anywhere but right where you are right now, path and goal overlap.
Namu Amida Butsu is the coming of Amida, as Ippen Shonin said.


@porkchop, good to see you are still going strong here. Namo Amida Bu _/\_

[Admin_PC]

From my experience, going nowhere is going everywhere.

Dharmavidya, the wonderful teacher here in the UK once said this too me, not sure if it is relevant, but it always helped me when faith wavered or motivation was lacking. "What is faith? To continue to practice even when our beliefs change"

Our beliefs, views, everything will change in this fools mind. Faith can never be a constant feeling. Faith is practice, practice is faith. You have to hold on tight to that one thought of Buddha. Practice is never going anywhere but right where you are right now, path and goal overlap.
Namu Amida Butsu is the coming of Amida, as Ippen Shonin said.

@porkchop, good to see you are still going strong here. Namo Amida Bu _/\_

Nice to see you too my friend.

[Jiko]

Nice to see you too my friend.

It has been a crazy year, a hard lesson learned. But all is well. Happy to be back to the simplicity of chanting Nembutsu _/\_

[Saoshun]

Sometimes dont you feel that your practice is leading nowhere? Sometimes I feel that, because saying Namo Amitabha Buddha many times doesnt change the fact that my life will still the same. I dont see any evidence that the fabric of reality is more than the solidity and suffering we live. Are you sure that there is really a Pure Land? Sometimes I will loose my Faith and tremble, and I dont like it. I still dont see Amitabha in my dreams, I still dont get any glimpses that there is really a Sukhavati, nevertheless I want to believe and many times I do believe.

What do you feel?

That means you need to practice other practices with it which generates experiences. If you feel "it's not this" keep practice but try other also because that the sign for moving forward. Pure land is for people who is enough for them to be reborn, if you feel it's not enough go deeper but do not judge it anyway (good or bad, better or worse etc). Either go deeper with teachings or go deeper with practice.

[Nosta]

Saoshun, for me its enought to rebirth on Pure Land, when I die.
Until that happens, I would like to try other practices (without leaving Pure Land!).