Cancel the Order

[Shinnin]

Cancel the Order

"We may ask Amitabha Buddha that we be spared from mishap. But even if we aren’t, we should believe that he stays with us. In Amitabha’s company, how could any adversity affect us? There is nothing to worry about because Amitabha will handle it.

Getting anxious because we fear that something awful may occur tomorrow is like making a reservation for that undesirable thing. Many of life’s misfortunes come about because we have placed an advance order for them. Why not cancel the order and start reciting Namo Amitabha Buddha now? We would live in his light. As to what tomorrow will bring, just leave it to Amitabha."

-Master Jingzong

[Jeff H]

My association is with Tibetan Buddhism, specifically FPMT in the Gelug tradition, and I don’t mean to be an interloper in the Pure Land sub-forum. But this teaching puzzles me regarding what I understand to be a universal Buddhist principle.

The core point, “cancel the order”, I agree with. I think it’s true that we pre-determine our future experiences by our thoughts and actions today, and therefore we have it within our power to change our future experiences by changing our thoughts and actions today.

But I have trouble with, “In Amitabha’s company, how could any adversity affect us? There is nothing to worry about because Amitabha will handle it.” It sounds exactly like “let go and let God” in the Christian teachings. That, I think, is contrary to the universal Buddhist principle that we must each, individually, accept full responsibility for whatever befalls us, now and in the future.

Refuge in the three jewels, I think, is different. Refuge means we have confident faith that liberation and enlightenment are possible due to the example of arhats and buddhas who’ve gone before us. It means that those beings have provided us with a road map to follow them –- by our own efforts –- in the Dharma. And it means that we can expect to find support among others who are similarly trying to change their lives. But it does not mean that we turn the job over to any other being to “handle it” for us.

Have I misunderstood this text?

[AlexMcLeod]

You've missed the part where he's suggesting people cultivate through Buddha name repetition. What he's saying is that through Amitabha influencing you, your mind is purified. Not the same as the Christian way of just have faith.

[Admin_PC]

Have I misunderstood this text?

Yes, you have... completely.

"In Amitabha’s company, how could any adversity affect us?" is referring to our minds, not necessarily some magical force field.
The entirety of the Buddhist message involves cultivating a mind that retains clarity even in the most tumultuous of events.

Also, you might want to go back and read some more sutras if you think this kind of presentation is inconsistent with the Buddhist message:
The Candima Sutta
The Suriya Sutta
The Lotus Sutra - Ch 25
The Medicine Buddha Sutra

From the Larger Sukhavati Sutra:

As their names spread everywhere, their virtuous ways prevail in the ten directions. They are protected and remembered by innumerable Buddhas.

As such Bodhisattvas accept and uphold Tathāgatas’ profound Dharma store, they protect those of the Tathāgata character-type and help them to carry on this character-type.

Vow 33. After I become a Buddha, in innumerable inconceivable Buddha Lands in the ten directions, all sentient beings touched by my radiance will become gentle in body and mind, surpassing gods. If this should not come true, I would not attain the perfect enlightenment.

Wherever the Buddha visits, in countries or settlements, no one will fail to be transformed. The world will be in harmony, the sun and the moon will be bright, and the winds and rains will be timely. Natural disasters and epidemics will not strike. The country will prosper, and the people will live in peace, rendering weaponry useless. As people admire virtue and appreciate kindness, they will learn to be courteous and to yield to one another.

From the Amitabha Sutra:

“Śāriputra, what is your opinion? Why is this sūtra called a sūtra protected and remembered by all Buddhas? Śāriputra, if there are good men and good women who have heard and upheld this sūtra, and have heard Buddhas’ names, they are protected and remembered by all Buddhas.

From the Visualization Sutra:

“Amitāyus Buddha has 84,000 excellent marks; each mark includes 84,000 excellent characteristics; each characteristic emits 84,000 beams of light. Each beam universally illuminates all worlds in the ten directions, attracting and accepting sentient beings that think of Buddhas, never abandoning them.

[Avalokiteśvara's] arms are red like the color of red lotus flowers, and they gleam with 80 koṭi wonderful beams of light, worn as necklaces. Displayed in these necklaces is the entire majestic Buddha work. His palms have the colors of 500 koṭi diverse lotus flowers. The tips of his ten fingers each display 84,000 pictures, like imprinted markings. Each picture has 84,000 colors, and each color emits 84,000 beams of light, which gently shine on all things. With these precious hands, he accepts and guides sentient beings. When he raises his foot, his sole shows the mark of a thousand-spoked wheel, which readily transforms into 500 koṭi platforms of radiance. Wherever he steps, flowers made of diamonds and jewels spread everywhere and cover everything.

Those who wish to see Avalokiteśvara Bodhisattva should do this visualization. Those who visualize him will not encounter disasters. Their karma hindrances will be completely removed, and their sins which would entail innumerable kalpas of birth and death will all be expunged. One will acquire immeasurable merit merely by hearing this Bodhisattva’s name, and even more by visualizing him.

Just as an FYI, your post is a direct violation of the Terms of Service; so next time it might be better if you keep such opinions quiet and do some more research before you voice them.

[Jeff H]

You've missed the part where he's suggesting people cultivate through Buddha name repetition. What he's saying is that through Amitabha influencing you, your mind is purified. Not the same as the Christian way of just have faith.

Ok. I can see that.

[Jeff H]

Have I misunderstood this text?

Yes, you have... completely.
...
Just as an FYI, your post is a direct violation of the Terms of Service; so next time it might be better if you keep such opinions quiet and do some more research before you voice them.

I understand that stridently expounding an opinion when one is insufficiently informed should be against the ToS. But I think respectfully asking for clarification should be an essential function of DW.

[Admin_PC]

I understand that stridently expounding an opinion when one is insufficiently informed should be against the ToS. But I think respectfully asking for clarification should be an essential function of DW.

Questioning the tenets of a school, claiming it's not inline with Buddhism, on that school's subforum is decidedly against the ToS.
So is Meta-Discussion, consider this a second informal warning.

[rory]

Now now are we so week that we cannot answer JeffH, who is asking sincerely?

Remember Tibetan Buddhist laypeople don't read the sutras and they usually follow Yogacara with it's emphasis on the immutability of karma, so let's help a questioner understand.

Yes, in various sutras Amitabha made great vows to help beings and if you do trust in him, he will help. Similarly Guan Yin/Kannon sama bodhisattva is famous all over Asia for helping practitioners who trust in her. And here it is spelled out in one of the most famous and respected sutras: the Lotus Sutra:

Good man, if any of the limitless hundreds of thousands of myriads of kotis of living beings who are undergoing all kinds of suffering hear of Guanshiyin Bodhisattva and recite his name single-mindedly, Guanshiyin Bodhisattva will immediately hear their voices and rescue them.

The awesome spiritual power of the Bodhisattva Mahasattva Guanshiyin is as lofty and sublime as that!

"If living beings who have much sexual desire constantly and reverently recite the name of Guanshiyin Bodhisattva, they will be separated from desire.

"If those who have much hatred constantly and reverently recite the name of Guanshiyin Bodhisattva, they will be separated from hatred.

"If those who are very stupid constantly and reverently recite the name of Guanshiyin Bodhisattva, they will be separated from stupidity.

"Inexhaustible Intention, Guanshiyin Bodhisattva has great awesome spiritual powers such as these and confers great benefits. Therefore living beings should always be mindful of him.

http://www.buddhistdoor.com/OldWeb/reso ... otus25.htm

I've had about 4 instances of GuanYin Bodhisattva really coming to my help. This is what Bodhisattvas do and any Buddhist in Asia will find this entirely normal. I think western Buddhist have little understanding or trust. I trust the same way in Amitabha due to his great vows and this is why Pure Land is practiced all over Asia.

Feel free to ask, what Shinnin posted is really true.
gassho
Rory

[narhwal90]

Personally I really appreciate the respectful contrast between Pure Land & Christianity- not that I am trying to compare or criticise in any way, only that I think my cultural heritage frequently leads me to misunderstand what people write about Pure Land.

[明安 Myoan]

There is much confusion about Pure Land, and often comparisons are made to Christianity.
Very often, in fact. So that explains the exasperation sensed in this thread.
Please don't be offended!

It's worth remembering that Pure Land is a branch of Mahayana Buddhism.
So negative karma is not magically removed through an incantation or "faith" in the same way as when someone says Jesus "saved" them.
Rather I view it as my negative karma is no longer an obstacle to practice and realization in the particular framework and methods of Pure Land Buddhism, as it might be for other practices which require strict adherence to the precepts or diligent cultivation of meritorious roots.

The "why" and "how" of this are best understood through the sources cited in this thread, and through personal experience of practicing Pure Land methods.

But I did want to mention the common misconception that in Pure Land, somehow actions stop having reactions, or that one is turned from black to white, unsaved to saved, by a temporary mental state that one makes.
Pure Land is subtler and richer than that, and if there are further questions, this is as good a place as any to explore the matter further

[sillyrabbit]

But I did want to mention the common misconception that in Pure Land, somehow actions stop having reactions, or that one is turned from black to white, unsaved to saved, by a temporary mental state that one makes.

Pure Land is subtler and richer than that, and if there are further questions, this is as good a place as any to explore the matter further

Good point, like the quote that started this thread was pointing at, at least to me: cultivation through Amitabha, even as votaries of his Light, helps to purify our mind, which can reduce our suffering in response to "reactions". It also purifies our causes over time, as well.

Btw when I say "votaries", I mean to convey the idea that it seems like practice causes his nature to arise in ours, like using one candle to light others, so that they share one flame. All the while, his nature is not really "his" per say, like how that original candle doesn't really "own" the flame.

[rory]

The technical principal undergirding Amida and Pure Land Buddhism is merit transfer, it's late so I just googled a few fast quotes and i'm sure others will help fill in.

D.S. Lopez Buddhist Hermeneutics

The principle underlying Amitabha's merciful deliverance was the transfer of his merits to
others, which transcended the law of karmic retribution. Transfer and transformation of merit,
in turn, were made possible by virtue of the wisdom of emptiness.

W.L. King JJRS 1984 An Interpretation of the Anjin Ketsujosho

the merits of the disciplined practice of the Other-Power Buddha Essence have been transferred to us who are without ... Again it has the meaning of "arousing a vow" (ie, desire for salvation) and
"turning over" [karmic merit to ... Now "Amida butsu" (ie, the nenbutsu) is this practice. ...

gassho
Rory
PS an old but good book to read is D.T. Suzuki's "Buddha of Infinite Light" he explains that Jodo Shinshu is just the flip side of Zen. Anyway he addresses the whole "it looks like Christianity" thing too.

[Jeff H]

Excellent. Thanks for the explanations, references, and insights, here and in the PMs I received. At the same time, I do apologize to anyone who found my post offensive

[AnotherBuddhistGuy19]

Excellent. Thanks for the explanations, references, and insights, here and in the PMs I received. At the same time, I do apologize to anyone who found my post offensive

Hi Jeff H,
Personally, I wasn't offended in any way with your post. To me it seemed like you were just asking for clarification on the quote and added your understanding of Amitabha. Nothing wrong there, and as I am new to Pure Land myself, I also think sometimes Amitabha can be portrayed as a god.

To the OP, I think that quote was beautiful. That part about placing an advance order for mishap speaks to me because I usually go into a situation, and freak out over situations way before they happen, while repeatedly playing the worst-case scenario in my head. Great quote to start the day!

Thanks again,
Dom

[Admin_PC]

At the same time, I do apologize to anyone who found my post offensive

Appreciate the apology. For my part, sorry if I come off harsh. The accusation of being "contrary to the universal Buddhist principle(s)" and the comparison with Christianity just happened to hit on 2 of my biggest pet peeves. The whole reason I took the moderator gig here in the first place is to combat the prevalent meme in the west that Pure Land is not "real" Buddhism. Pure Land is precisely the Buddhism of Other Power and not dependent upon self-reliance, self-power, or overly concerned with "personal responsibility".

Zen seeks to let go of the grasping mind, either through zazen or koan practice, often taking on various austerities. As Dogen said:

“To study the Buddha Way is to study the self. To study the self is to forget the self. To forget the self is to be actualized by myriad things. When actualized by myriad things, your body and mind as well as the bodies and minds of others drop away. No trace of enlightenment remains, and this no-trace continues endlessly.”
― Dōgen

Pure Land seeks to allow one to let go of Self Power, self grasping, selfish calculation. On the phrase "Jinen Honi", Shinran wrote:

"Ji" means “of itself” – not through the practicer’s calculation. It signifies being made so.
"Nen" means “to be made so” – it is not through the practicer’s calculation; it is through the working of the Tathagata’s Vow.
"Honi" signifies being made so through the working of the Tathagata’s Vow. It is the working of the Vow where there is no room for calculation on the part of the practicer. Know, therefore, that in Other Power, no working is true working.

It's a different mindset and I can understand how it can create aversion in folks who aren't big on Christianity. Some of the phrasing may sound similar, but the goals, practices, and mindsets are completely different. On the other hand, the approaches in Pure Land and Zen seem contradictory on the surface, but have the same ultimate aims.

[Jeff H]

At the same time, I do apologize to anyone who found my post offensive

Appreciate the apology. For my part, sorry if I come off harsh. The accusation of being "contrary to the universal Buddhist principle(s)" and the comparison with Christianity just happened to hit on 2 of my biggest pet peeves. The whole reason I took the moderator gig here in the first place is to combat the prevalent meme in the west that Pure Land is not "real" Buddhism. Pure Land is precisely the Buddhism of Other Power and not dependent upon self-reliance, self-power, or overly concerned with "personal responsibility".

Zen seeks to let go of the grasping mind, either through zazen or koan practice, often taking on various austerities. As Dogen said:

“To study the Buddha Way is to study the self. To study the self is to forget the self. To forget the self is to be actualized by myriad things. When actualized by myriad things, your body and mind as well as the bodies and minds of others drop away. No trace of enlightenment remains, and this no-trace continues endlessly.”
― Dōgen

Pure Land seeks to allow one to let go of Self Power, self grasping, selfish calculation. On the phrase "Jinen Honi", Shinran wrote:

"Ji" means “of itself” – not through the practicer’s calculation. It signifies being made so.
"Nen" means “to be made so” – it is not through the practicer’s calculation; it is through the working of the Tathagata’s Vow.
"Honi" signifies being made so through the working of the Tathagata’s Vow. It is the working of the Vow where there is no room for calculation on the part of the practicer. Know, therefore, that in Other Power, no working is true working.

It's a different mindset and I can understand how it can create aversion in folks who aren't big on Christianity. Some of the phrasing may sound similar, but the goals, practices, and mindsets are completely different. On the other hand, the approaches in Pure Land and Zen seem contradictory on the surface, but have the same ultimate aims.

So, in retrospect, I'm really quite glad that I broke ToS to post my question. Had it occurred to me I was breaking ToS I wouldn't have posted ... and I wouldn't have learned all this as a result.

Over my nearly 10 years in Tibetan Buddhism, Amitabha began as sort of shadowy presence, occasionally represented in the heart of a Buddha image. I incorporated him into my prayers for inspiration to fulfill the four immeasurables, but had no particular connection. Over time, I've begun hearing more and more within FPMT teachings about setting an intention to be reborn in a pure land. Now I've also followed a few threads on DW about it and it's beginning to feel more like a potential direction.

Thanks.

[rory]

Listen;
I'm a devoted Pure Land practitioner and I too at one time thought Pure Land wasn't "real" Buddhism and that is was akin to Christianity. In those days I only had books, but great ones from here to show me just how wrong I was!
http://www.ymba.org/free-books
Buddhism of Wisdon and Faith is very good, Pure land of the Patriarchs, Zen and Sukhavati etc
So glad to help, here is also a nice link on Pure Land doctrine:
http://www.jsri.jp/English/Pureland/doctrine.html

it's important for people to ask all sorts of questions, even ones we may find "unpleasant" so they can learn from our replies! So feel free to post your questions about Pure Land here.
gassho
Rory

[Jeff H]

Listen;
I'm a devoted Pure Land practitioner and I too at one time thought Pure Land wasn't "real" Buddhism and that is was akin to Christianity. In those days I only had books, but great ones from here to show me just how wrong I was!
http://www.ymba.org/free-books
Buddhism of Wisdon and Faith is very good, Pure land of the Patriarchs, Zen and Sukhavati etc
So glad to help, here is also a nice link on Pure Land doctrine:
http://www.jsri.jp/English/Pureland/doctrine.html

it's important for people to ask all sorts of questions, even ones we may find "unpleasant" so they can learn from our replies! So feel free to post your questions about Pure Land here.
gassho
Rory

Thanks Rory. I have created a folder and saved shortcuts to all three. It may take a while for me to circle back, but I'm definitely interested and I appreciate the references.

[Astus]

On the other hand, the approaches in Pure Land and Zen seem contradictory on the surface, but have the same ultimate aims.

If by ultimate aims you mean buddhahood, definitely true. However, it should not be forgotten that there are a number of differences between the Pure Land path and the path of sages.

My answer to a comment comparing Zen with Jodo Shinshu

Refuge means we have confident faith that liberation and enlightenment are possible due to the example of arhats and buddhas who’ve gone before us. It means that those beings have provided us with a road map to follow them –- by our own efforts –- in the Dharma. And it means that we can expect to find support among others who are similarly trying to change their lives. But it does not mean that we turn the job over to any other being to “handle it” for us.

No buddha can save beings on their own, otherwise samsara has already been over and we wouldn't need any path. The Pure Land way is a teaching, a method, that one can use for attaining complete enlightenment. The reason it is the path that is swift and easy is that the immediate goal is to attain birth in Sukhavati, and such a birth is possible because the conditions are simple: to have faith, intention/vow, and mindfulness/practice. That is how karma works anyway (see: MN 57).

[Admin_PC]

If by ultimate aims you mean buddhahood, definitely true.

That's exactly what I meant. Christianity doesn't really hold out the possibility of becoming Buddha, the end goal is to live as a servant of God in heaven for eternity (Note in advance: I'm not going to entertain alternate interpretations of Christianity that say otherwise.)