Sravakas in the Pure Land

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Admin_PC
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Sravakas in the Pure Land

Post by Admin_PC »

I'm curious, how do the various schools deal with mentions of Sravakas (Voice-hearer disciples) and Arhats in Sukhavati, the Buddha Field of Amitayus?
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Re: Sravakas in the Pure Land

Post by Admin_PC »

Since it's a slow day, I'll go ahead and admit I had a little bit of an ulterior motive in starting this thread. There was a discussion earlier this year that said that Amida couldn't be a Sambhogakaya Buddha (as is held traditionally in East Asia) because he teaches lower vehicles. The main point of this thread is to demonstrate conclusively that this later accusation (that Amida teaches lower vehicles) is false.
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Re: Sravakas in the Pure Land

Post by Admin_PC »

I'll start with the commentarial tradition....

The most important Indian commentaries on Pure Land are from Vasubandhu and Nagarjuna.

Vasubandhu makes no bones about his stance on this issue:
Vasubandhu's Upadesha on the Sūtra of Amitāyus Buddha wrote:Like the sun, Buddha wisdom is bright and pure,
And it dispels the darkness of the ignorance of the world.
Brahma tones reach far and wide,
Heard by all [in worlds] in the ten directions.
Amitāyus, the Samyak-Saṁbuddha,
Is the Dharma King who well presides there.
The pure multitudes who accompany that Tathāgata are
Miraculously reborn there from flowers of true enlightenment.
They delight in the flavors of the Buddha Dharma,
Taking dhyāna and samādhi as food.
Having forever left the troubles of body and mind,
They experience uninterrupted bliss.
The roots of goodness in the Mahāyāna domain
Are equal, with no scornful names,
Because no one is reborn there in female form, or with incomplete faculties,
Or as the character-type bent on riding the Two Vehicles.

All wishes and preferences of the sentient beings there
Are fulfilled.
Therefore, I wish to be reborn
In Amitāyus Buddha’s land.
Nagarjuna's comment is a little less direct. In his "Path of Easy Practice", Nagarjuna paraphrases the Primal Vow of Amida (18th Vow in Chinese versions, 19th Vow in Sanskrit versions):
Bodhisattva Nagarjuna on The Path of Easy Practice (excerpts) from The Ninth Chapter of the Discourse on the Ten Stages wrote:Amida Buddha's Primal Vow is as follows:

If anyone contemplates me, recites my name, and takes refuge in me, he will instantly enter the Stage of Assurance and subsequently attain the highest perfect Bodhi.
"Subsequently attain the highest perfect Bodhi" means that all born in Sukhavati will eventually activate Bodhicitta, the aspiration for enlightenment for the sake of all sentient beings (without regressing), and become a Anuttara Samyaksam Buddha - not merely reside in the bliss of cessation.

In east asia, one of the most important Pure Land figures is Tan Luan. Tan Luan was considered the founder of Pure Land Buddhism in China by the Japanese. He was influential to ShanTao (and his teacher Tao Cho), the second patriarch of Chinese Pure Land. Tan Luan studied directly with the Indian Bodhiruci. In Tan Luan's Commentary on the Upadesa on the Sutras of Limitless Life, he makes the clear assertion that the lower vehicles are not taught in Sukhavati. He bases his assertion on the following passage of the Lotus Sutra:
“O Śāriputra! The buddhas appear in the troubled world of the five defilements,
which are the defilement of the kalpa, the defilement through desire’s
confusion, the defilement of sentient beings, the defilement of views, and
the defilement of lifespan. Therefore, O Śāriputra, in the period of the decadent
kalpa, because sentient beings are filthy, greedy, jealous, and develop
roots of error, all the buddhas illuminate the three [vehicles] with the power
of skillful means in order to teach the single buddha vehicle.
According to all of the Pure Land sutras, the world of the five defilements and the period of the decadent kalpa simply do not apply to Sukhavati and so only the Single Buddha Vehicle is taught. Tan Luan takes this even further (again quoting the Lotus Sutra regarding the incomplete liberation of Sravaka Arhats), saying that Pure Lands are one of the only places Arhats can go to thus progress towards Buddhahood in the Single Buddha Vehicle. He explains how Amitabha turns Sravakas towards the path of awakening Bodhicitta in the following passage:
The śrāvakas, having taken the limit of existence as their
goal, reckon that they cannot go on to produce the root and sprout of
the way of buddha. So, the Buddha encompasses them with the inconceivable
divine power of his original vow, and causes them to produce
it. It must be, then, pursuant to his divine power that they publish
the intention of supreme enlightenment (anuttarasamyaksaṃbodhicittotpāda).

To take a metaphor: if a (poisonous) bird enters water, the fish and molluscs die;
but when a rhinoceros touches it, the dead are all revived. In this way they
cannot live, yet they live, and therefore we marvel. Thus, among the
five inconceivable things (wu bu si yi 五不思議), the buddhadharma
is the most inconceivable. The Buddha [Amitābha] is able to cause
śrāvakas to go on and publish the intention of supreme enlightenment:
truly, this is the limit of inconceivability!

[17. The Fulfillment of All That Is Sought, 831b4–10]
If those beings wish any delight,
it is always and fully obtained.
These two lines designate the perfection of the merits of the fulfillment
of all that is sought in the decorations. Why did the Buddha
originally conceive this resolution? He saw that, in the world, an aristocrat,
whose post is important, has no means of going into retirement,
while a commoner, whose lineage is humble, has no way of bettering
himself, though he desires it. Length or brevity [of life] is determined
by karma: as with the Ṛṣi Asita, its control does not lie with oneself.
Since such as these are blown about by the winds of karma, they do not
attain autonomy.

Therefore, the resolution [of Dharmākara Bodhisattva] says, “May
it be, in my land, that everyone, calling for what he seeks, will feel his
want fulfilled.” Therefore, [Vasubandhu] says:
If those beings wish any delight,
it is always and fully obtained.
[Concluding Resolution, 831b11–13]
Therefore I resolve to be born
in the land of the Buddha Amita.
Tan Luan goes even further, but this post is starting to get lengthy. I recommend reading through the whole commentary.
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Re: Sravakas in the Pure Land

Post by Admin_PC »

Continuing with examination of the paths taught in the Pure Land of Sukhavati, the Buddha field of Amitayus, I'd like to discuss sutras now.

First, is the Shorter Sukhavati Sutra. This Sutra is preserved in Sanskrit (and Tibetan) as well as Chinese.

In the Sanskrit version, we have the following quote:
Shorter Sukhavati Sutra - from Sanskrit - The Land of Bliss by Luis O Gomez wrote:Now what do you think about this, Shariputra, why is that discourse on Dharma called 'Embraced by All Buddhas'? Those sons or daughters of a good family who hear the name of this discourse on the Dharma and remember the names of these Buddhas, blessed ones, will all be embraced by all these Buddhas and will never retreat in their pursuit of unsurpassable, perfect, and full awakening. Therefore, Shariputra, believe in me, and believe in these Buddhas, blessed ones; place your trust in us, and do not doubt.

Those sons or daughters of a good family, Shariputra, who have set their minds on rebirth in the buddha-field of Amitayus, the Blessed One, the Tathagata, or those who are now setting their minds, or will set their minds, on such rebirth, they will never retreat in their pursuit of unsurpassable, perfect, and full awakening; they have been reborn, are now being reborn, or will be reborn in that buddha-field. Therefore, Shariputra, sons or daughters of good families who have faith should actively direct their thoughts towards rebirth in that buddha-field."
In the Chinese version, we have:
The Smaller Sutra - from Chinese - The Three Pure Land Sutras by BDK wrote:“Śāriputra, why do you think this teaching is called the ‘Sutra of Protection
by All Buddhas’? Śāriputra, all good men and women who hear this
sutra and hold fast to it, and also those who hear the names of those buddhas,
are protected by all the buddhas and dwell in the stage of non-retrogression
for realizing highest, perfect enlightenment.
This is why, Śāriputra, you
should accept my words in faith and the teachings of all the buddhas.

“Śāriputra, those who have already aspired, now aspire, or in the future
will aspire to be born in the land of Amitāyus Buddha all dwell in the stage
of non-retrogression for realizing highest, perfect enlightenment.
They have
already been born, are now being born, or will be born in that land. Hence,
Śāriputra, good men and women of faith should aspire to birth there.
You can see from both of these quotes that it is clear, aspirants towards birth in Sukhavati will be in the stage on non-retrogression from the path of Samyaksam Buddhahood. There is absolutely no caveat allowing for drifting into parinirvana as an Arhat. There is only the path towards Buddhahood.

Moving on. Like the Shorter Sukhavati Sutra, the Larger Sukhavati Sutra is also preserved in Sanskrit (and Tibetan) as well as Chinese. There are some small differences in the popular Chinese version (translated by Sanghavarman) and the Sanskrit; however, the important sections are consistent.

From the Sanskrit translation we see:
Larger Sukhavati Sutra - from Sanskrit - by F. Max Mueller wrote:'And again, O Ananda, the sound and noise of that Bodhi-tree, when it is moved by the wind, reaches immeasurable worlds. And, O Ananda, for those beings whose hearing that Bodhi-tree reaches, no disease of the ear is to be feared until they reach Bodhi. And for those immeasurable, innumerable, inconceivable, incomparable, measureless, immense, and inexpressible beings, whose sight that Bodhi-tree reaches, no disease of the eye is to be feared until they reach Bodhi. And again, O Ananda, for those beings who smell the scent of that Bodhi-tree, no disease of the nose is to be feared until they reach Bodhi. For those beings who taste the fruits of that Bodhi-tree, no disease of the tongue is to be feared until they reach Bodhi. For those beings who are lighted up by the light of that Bodhi-tree, no disease of the body is to be feared until they reach Bodhi. And again, O Ananda, for those beings who meditate on that Bodhi-tree according to the Dharma, henceforward until they reach the Bodhi, no perplexity of their thought is to be feared. And all those beings, through the seeing of that Bodhi-tree, never turn away, namely, from the highest perfect knowledge. And they obtain three kinds of resignation, namely, Ghoshanuga, resignation to natural consequences, and (resignation to consequences which have not yet arisen, through the power of the former prayers of that same Tathagata Amitayus, through the service rendered by them to the former Jinas, and through the performance of the former prayers, to be well accomplished, and to be well conceived, without failure or without flaw.
and
Larger Sukhavati Sutra - from Sanskrit - by F. Max Mueller wrote:'And again, O Ananda, all those beings who have been born in that Buddha country recite the story of the Dharma, which is accompanied by omniscience. And for the beings in that Buddha country there exists no idea of property whatever. And all those going and walking through that Buddha country feel neither pleasure nor pain; stepping forward they have no desire, and with desire they do not step forward. They give no thought to any beings. And again, O Ananda, for those beings who have been born in that world Sukhavati, there is no idea of others, no idea of self, no idea of inequality, no strife, no dispute, no opposition. Full of equanimity, of benevolent thought, of tender thought, of affectionate thought, of useful thought, of serene thought, of firm thought, of unbiassed thought, of undisturbed thought, of unagitated thought, of thought fixed on the practice of discipline and transcendent wisdom, having entered on knowledge which is a firm support to all thoughts, equal to the ocean in wisdom, equal to the mountain Meru in knowledge, rich in many good qualities, delighting in the music of the Bodhyangas, devoted to the music of Buddha, they discard the eye of flesh, and assume the heavenly eye.

'And having approached the eye of wisdom, having reached the eye of the Dharma, producing the eye of Buddha, showing it, lighting it, and fully exhibiting it, they attain perfect wisdom. And being bent on the equilibrium of the three elements, having subdued and calmed their thoughts endowed with a perception of the causes of all things, clever in explanation of causes, endowed with the power of explaining the Dharma or things such as they really are, clever in taking and refusing, clever in leading and not leading, clever in resting, they, being regardless of worldly stories, derive true pleasures from stories transcending the world. They are clever in examining all things, familiar with the knowledge of the cessation of the working of all things, perceiving even what cannot be seen, caring for nothing, attached to nothing, without cares, without pain, free without clinging to anything, free from impurity, of blameless behavior, not clinging to anything, intent on the deep or profound laws, they do not sink, elevated to the entrance into the knowledge of Buddha difficult to comprehend, having obtained the path of one vehicles, free from doubt, beyond the reach of questionings, knowing the thoughts of others, free from self-confidence.
This parallels the Chinese:
Buddha Pronounces the Sūtra of Amitāyus Buddha - from Chinese - by Rulu wrote:“In addition, the bodhi tree in Amitāyus Buddha’s bodhimaṇḍa is four million lis tall. The tree trunk is 5,000 yojanas in circumference, with branches and leaves spreading 200,000 lis in the four directions. All are naturally made of various treasures and adorned with the kings of jewels, such as the moonlight jewel and the ocean wheel jewel. Hanging from the twigs are garlands of jewels in a billion changing colors, radiating boundless beams of glowing light. Covering this tree are wonderful jeweled nets that manifest all kinds of adornments at one’s wish. They emit wondrous Dharma tones as breezes gently stir. These tones flow to all Buddha Lands in the ten directions. Those who hear them achieve the profound Endurance in Dharmas, abiding in the spiritual level of no regress. Even before they attain Buddhahood, they will not encounter tribulations. Although their eyes see sights, ears hear sounds, noses smell scents, tongues taste flavors, bodies touch the light, and minds perceive mental objects, they acquire purity in their six faculties, which will trouble them no more.

“Ānanda, when gods in that land see this bodhi tree, they achieve the Three Endurances in the Dharma. First, the Endurance in Hearing the Sounds; second, the Endurance in Accord; third, the Endurance in the Realization of the No Birth of Dharmas. They achieve these endurances entirely by virtue of Amitāyus Buddha’s awesome spiritual power and by virtue of the power of His original vows, the fulfillment of these vows, the clarity of these vows, the firmness of these vows, and the ultimacy of these vows.”
and
The Buddha told Ānanda wrote:, “When Bodhisattvas reborn in that Buddha Land speak, they always pronounce the true Dharma in accord with their wisdom, with no contradictions or mistakes. For the myriad things in that land, they hold no concept of belonging or attachment. Without emotional bondage, they come and go, move or stop, completely at ease. Unfettered by endearment or alienation, with no sense of self versus others, neither competitive nor disputative, they have the altruistic mind of great lovingkindness and compassion for sentient beings. Gentle and docile, they have no anger. Free from the mental coverings, they have a pure mind. Never weary or indolent, they retain in their minds equality, excellence, profundity, and concentration, as well as love, appreciation, and joy of the Dharma. Having eradicated afflictions and purified the mind bent on the evil life-journeys, they take all Bodhisattva actions and acquire immeasurable merit.

“Equipped with profound samādhi, transcendental powers, and illuminating wisdom, they practice the Seven Bodhi Factors, training their minds in accordance with the Buddha Dharma. Their physical-eye is pure and perceptive, able to distinguish all things. Their god-eye reaches an immeasurable, boundless distance. Their dharma-eye observes the ultimate Way. Their wisdom-eye sees the truth, which can cross them over to the opposite shore. Their Buddha-eye completely penetrates dharma nature.

“With hindrance-free wisdom, they expound the Dharma to others. Seeing that all things in the Three Realms of Existence are equal in their emptiness, they resolve to seek the Buddha Dharma. Equipped with eloquence, they annihilate the afflictions that trouble all sentient beings. Born from the Tathātaga, they understand the true suchness of dharmas. Equipped with a good understanding of nirvāṇa and with verbal skills, they do not enjoy worldly talks but delight in true discussions [of the Dharma]. They develop their roots of goodness and resolve to attain Buddha bodhi. Knowing that all dharmas are in nirvāṇa, they end both their afflictions and their cycle of birth and death. When they hear the profound Dharma, they have no fears or doubts in their minds and are able to train themselves accordingly. Their great compassion is so profound, far-reaching, and wonderful that it embraces all sentient beings without exception, and they carry them all aboard the ultimate One Vehicle to the opposite shore.
Here again, we can see that all people born in the Pure Land reach the level of non-retrogression towards Buddhahood. We also see that the Bodhisattvas of that land have attained the One Vehicle. Thus, it's the One Vehicle (aka the Buddha Vehicle) that is taught in the Pure Land. Earlier in the sutra, it makes mention that they only teach the 3 vehicles as skillful means while visiting other Buddha lands. The Three Vehicles are not taught as such in the Pure Land itself.

The last of the 3 important sutras in Pure Land is the Visualization Sutra. There is no known Sanskrit copy of this sutra, as it was believed to have been composed in Central Asia. As such, it is not accepted by Tibetan traditions. Since we are talking about all Pure Land schools, including the East Asian ones, I'll include it here.
The Visualization Sutra by Rulu wrote:The Buddha told Ānanda and Vaidehī, “A low rebirth in the low rank can be achieved by sentient beings that have done bad karmas, such as any of the five rebellious acts or the ten evil karmas. Because of their evil karmas, these fools should go down the evil life-paths to undergo endless suffering for many kalpas. But when such a fool’s life is ending, he may encounter a beneficent learned friend who will comfort him in many ways, expound the wondrous Dharma, and teach him to think of that Buddha. However, this person, overcome by suffering, will be unable to think of that Buddha. His beneficent friend will then tell him, ‘If you are unable to think of that Buddha, you should say that you take refuge in Amitāyus Buddha. Say it earnestly and keep your voice uninterrupted as you say “namo Amitāyus Buddha” ten times in ten thoughts.’ By saying Amitāyus Buddha's name, thought after thought, his sins which would entail 80 koṭi kalpas of birth and death will all be expunged. When his life is ending, he will see a golden lotus flower appearing before him like the sun.

“In the instant of a thought, he will be reborn in the Land of Ultimate Bliss. He will remain in the lotus flower for twelve large kalpas. When the lotus flower opens, Bodhisattvas Avalokiteśvara and Great Might Arrived, with tones of great compassion, will expound to him the true reality of dharmas and the Dharma for expunging sins. Having heard the teachings, he will be delighted and immediately activate the bodhi mind. This is called a low rebirth in the low rank.
As we can see above, activating Bodhicitta is the first step of the lowest birth in the low rank/grade. In fact, all of the low rank/grade births explicitly list activating Bodhi-mind. Rebirth in the middle grade is the only one that doesn't seem to guarantee Buddhahood, but this is if one doesn't already assume activating Bodhi-mind is already a given for such a birth, provided that it is assured to those of the low grade. The middle grade seems to be designed for those with some training in Sravakayana and absolutely no interest or exposure to Mahayana. However, the sutra makes no mention of those born in middle grade passing away in the Arhat state which can be achieved quickly from such a birth. Furthermore, those born in the middle grade will hear the Dharma directly from Amitayus or Avalokiteśvara and Mahasthamaprapta. The 3 of them are said to teach the Dharma in accordance with the sutras in the twelve categories, which includes the Mahayana (vaipulya) sutras. Thus, even birth in the middle grade would appear to require one to at least have instruction in Mahayana teachings.

Whether or not these passages are enough to convince everyone that beings born in the Pure Land are able to attain high bhumis in the Bodhisattva path quickly, I think it needs to be said that there are absolutely no passages in any of the Pure Land sutras that support the idea of Sravaka Arhats passing away from the Pure Land into parinirvana (in fact the Larger Sutra explicitly mentions the idea that passing away into parinirvana is just a demonstration for those of middling or low capacity).
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Re: Sravakas in the Pure Land

Post by Sentient Light »

iPorkChop wrote:Whether or not these passages are enough to convince everyone that beings born in the Pure Land are able to attain high bhumis in the Bodhisattva path quickly
...This is controversial...? It sounds like something that should be universal for Pure Land traditions, no?
iPorkChop wrote:I think it needs to be said that there are absolutely no passages in any of the Pure Land sutras that support the idea of Sravaka Arhats passing away from the Pure Land into parinirvana
Also, is this something that people are concerned about? I think the existence of sravakas in the Pure Land is a separate issue from whether arhats enter parinirvana from the Pure Land.

As for their existence, I think the references in the Larger Sutra are sufficient:
(14) If, when I attain Buddhahood, the number of the shravakas in my land could be known, even if all the beings and pratyekabuddhas living in this universe of a thousand million worlds should count them during a hundred thousand kalpas, may I not attain perfect Enlightenment.
and
The shravakas, bodhisattvas, heavenly beings and humans there have lofty and brilliant wisdom, and are masters of the supernatural powers. They are all of one form, without any differences, but are called 'heavenly beings' and 'humans' simply by analogy with the states of existence in other worlds. They are of noble and majestic countenance, unequaled in all the worlds, and their appearance is superb, unmatched by any being, heavenly or human. They are all endowed with bodies of Naturalness, Emptiness, and Infinity.
So I think the more controversial issue is what this means. In the above quote, "deva" and "human" are analogies fairly explicitly. It could stand to reason that "sravaka" and "bodhisattva" has similar analogous meaning (which I think Tan-luan gets at in his commentary): "sravaka" refers to beings at the 7th bhumi or below; "bodhisattva" refers to bodhisattva-mahasattvas specifically.

I think, because bodhicitta is not a requirement for birth, it could simply refer to disciples prior to aspiring for bodhicitta and afterward, which seems to accord with your position here:
iPorkChop wrote:The middle grade seems to be designed for those with some training in Sravakayana and absolutely no interest or exposure to Mahayana. However, the sutra makes no mention of those born in middle grade passing away in the Arhat state which can be achieved quickly from such a birth. Furthermore, those born in the middle grade will hear the Dharma directly from Amitayus or Avalokiteśvara and Mahasthamaprapta. The 3 of them are said to teach the Dharma in accordance with the sutras in the twelve categories, which includes the Mahayana (vaipulya) sutras. Thus, even birth in the middle grade would appear to require one to at least have instruction in Mahayana teachings.
Now, as far this:
iPorkChop wrote:The main point of this thread is to demonstrate conclusively that this later accusation (that Amida teaches lower vehicles) is false.
I'm surprised this matters to people, but I think you can logically discern that the sravakayana does get taught in Amitabha's Pure Land, even if he is not teaching the sravakayana to anyone. Here is the simple logic:
Vow 22 wrote:If, when I attain Buddhahood, bodhisattvas in the Buddha-lands of other quarters who visit my land should not ultimately and unfailingly reach the Stage of Becoming a Buddha after One More Life, may I not attain perfect Enlightenment. Excepted are those who wish to teach and guide sentient beings in accordance with their original vows. For they wear the armour of great vows, accumulate merits, deliver all beings from birth-and-death, visit Buddha-lands to perform the bodhisattva practices, make offerings to Buddhas, Tathagatas, throughout the ten quarters, enlighten uncountable sentient beings as numerous as the sands of the River Ganges, and establish them in the highest, perfect Enlightenment. Such bodhisattvas transcend the course of practice of the ordinary bodhisattvas, manifest the practices of all the bodhisattva stages, and cultivate the virtues of Samantabhadra.
This vow suggests that those who have made vows to appear in other world-systems, including worlds of the five turbidities like this one, will do so. So if the vow was to return to this world and become a Buddha, like Sakyamuni had, then that Buddha will ultimately teach the sravakayana, along with the bodhisattvayana. Now, Amitabha teaches the bodhisattvayana to all beings who are born into his land, but I argue that just because we have taken vows to be bodhisattvas and aspire for Buddhahood, that does not mean that we aren't to learn the sravakayana or that the sravakayana isn't taught in the Pure Land. On the contrary: the sravakayana must be taught to all bodhisattvas, unless that bodhisattvas vows are to attain awakening and manifest a Pure Land specifically catered to bodhisattvas.

So, no, I don't think arhats enter parinirvana in the Pure Land. And I don't think that Amitabha teaches the arhat-vehicle to his disciples. But I do think that Amitabha, who has vows that beings born in his land are endowed with mastery over skillful means, and who recognizes that some of the beings born into the Pure Land will ultimately be reborn in other world systems in order to teach the sravakayana, must also teach the sravakayana -- not in order that beings enter arhatship under his tutelage, but because at least some of the bodhisattvas he teaches must eventually teach the sravakayana to other beings in other world systems.
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Re: Sravakas in the Pure Land

Post by Admin_PC »

Sentient Light wrote:
iPorkChop wrote:Whether or not these passages are enough to convince everyone that beings born in the Pure Land are able to attain high bhumis in the Bodhisattva path quickly
...This is controversial...? It sounds like something that should be universal for Pure Land traditions, no?
iPorkChop wrote:I think it needs to be said that there are absolutely no passages in any of the Pure Land sutras that support the idea of Sravaka Arhats passing away from the Pure Land into parinirvana
Also, is this something that people are concerned about? I think the existence of sravakas in the Pure Land is a separate issue from whether arhats enter parinirvana from the Pure Land.
The whole purpose for this thread was to address the criticism that since there are Sravakas in the Pure Land, then the 3 vehicles are taught in the Pure Land, thus that the Pure Land was not a Pure Realm, and therefore Amida could not be a Sambhogakaya - limiting his capacity for being able to help residents on the path to Buddhahood. In east asian Pure Land, every school that I've encountered has stated that all who go to the Pure Land eventually train the Bodhisattva path. The generally accepted thesis in the east asian schools is that Sravakas in the Pure Land are just Sravakas, because they have not yet awakened Bodhicitta, the same goes for the ordinary folks there. I think the sutras bear this out and I've tried to show this.
Sentient Light wrote:So I think the more controversial issue is what this means. In the above quote, "deva" and "human" are analogies fairly explicitly. It could stand to reason that "sravaka" and "bodhisattva" has similar analogous meaning (which I think Tan-luan gets at in his commentary): "sravaka" refers to beings at the 7th bhumi or below; "bodhisattva" refers to bodhisattva-mahasattvas specifically.

I think, because bodhicitta is not a requirement for birth, it could simply refer to disciples prior to aspiring for bodhicitta and afterward, which seems to accord with your position here...
Yes, this is precisely what I'm trying to get at and consistent with the thesis I gave above. I think this is more than just the opinion of the east asian schools, I think the sutras definitely make the case for this.
Sentient Light wrote:Now, as far this:
iPorkChop wrote:The main point of this thread is to demonstrate conclusively that this later accusation (that Amida teaches lower vehicles) is false.
I'm surprised this matters to people, but I think you can logically discern that the sravakayana does get taught in Amitabha's Pure Land, even if he is not teaching the sravakayana to anyone. Here is the simple logic:
Vow 22 wrote:If, when I attain Buddhahood, bodhisattvas in the Buddha-lands of other quarters who visit my land should not ultimately and unfailingly reach the Stage of Becoming a Buddha after One More Life, may I not attain perfect Enlightenment. Excepted are those who wish to teach and guide sentient beings in accordance with their original vows. For they wear the armour of great vows, accumulate merits, deliver all beings from birth-and-death, visit Buddha-lands to perform the bodhisattva practices, make offerings to Buddhas, Tathagatas, throughout the ten quarters, enlighten uncountable sentient beings as numerous as the sands of the River Ganges, and establish them in the highest, perfect Enlightenment. Such bodhisattvas transcend the course of practice of the ordinary bodhisattvas, manifest the practices of all the bodhisattva stages, and cultivate the virtues of Samantabhadra.
This vow suggests that those who have made vows to appear in other world-systems, including worlds of the five turbidities like this one, will do so. So if the vow was to return to this world and become a Buddha, like Sakyamuni had, then that Buddha will ultimately teach the sravakayana, along with the bodhisattvayana. Now, Amitabha teaches the bodhisattvayana to all beings who are born into his land, but I argue that just because we have taken vows to be bodhisattvas and aspire for Buddhahood, that does not mean that we aren't to learn the sravakayana or that the sravakayana isn't taught in the Pure Land. On the contrary: the sravakayana must be taught to all bodhisattvas, unless that bodhisattvas vows are to attain awakening and manifest a Pure Land specifically catered to bodhisattvas.

So, no, I don't think arhats enter parinirvana in the Pure Land. And I don't think that Amitabha teaches the arhat-vehicle to his disciples. But I do think that Amitabha, who has vows that beings born in his land are endowed with mastery over skillful means, and who recognizes that some of the beings born into the Pure Land will ultimately be reborn in other world systems in order to teach the sravakayana, must also teach the sravakayana -- not in order that beings enter arhatship under his tutelage, but because at least some of the bodhisattvas he teaches must eventually teach the sravakayana to other beings in other world systems.
The Pure Land as "defiled land" due to the presence of the other vehicles was a pretty big deal back in March. Back then, a portion of the discussion happened in private, so I don't have a lot to link to. Things have been slow around here lately, so I decided to bring it back up. :) The earlier discussion kind of stalled due to the Visualization Sutra not being universally accepted, so this time I tried to focus on more universal sources.

Thanks for bringing up the vows. I was prepared to dive into them if the need arose. Since the vows do vary a bit from translation to translation and tradition to tradition, it was going to be a lot of work. For example: the Sanskrit version only has 47 vows - the 18th is kind of combined with the 20th and appears as the 19th in the Sanskrit. Also: Gomez doesn't include the One Vehicle in his translations even though it's clearly in the original text(s), and interpolates some of his own ideas in a couple of spots (such as support for the concept of multiple paths in the Pure Land).

I agree with you on pretty much everything you've stated. I think that Sravakayana teachings get taught in the Pure Land, but only in the context of the One Vehicle towards Buddhahood. Attaining Arhatship is not presented as a final goal in the Pure Land, but as you pointed out - residents of the Pure Land must be able to teach the 3 Vehicles as skillful means to beings in other worlds (as the Larger sutra explicitly states).
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