No (I'm surprised you said this too). Buddhist realization instructor/guide. Certainly not just a meditation instructor.Astus wrote:So, what is a Zen teacher? Many possible answers. Let's translate it to English: meditation instructor.
Kirt
No (I'm surprised you said this too). Buddhist realization instructor/guide. Certainly not just a meditation instructor.Astus wrote:So, what is a Zen teacher? Many possible answers. Let's translate it to English: meditation instructor.
Not at all.jikai wrote:I hope my posts did not in any way come off as me dismissing the Chan/Zen transmission.
You should. How "high up" is the criticism? There is a point of course as Zen developed from Tendai and legitimately staked a position separate from Tendai. Nonetheless in the context of Zen Buddhism in the West there should be harmony and mutual support between the Zen and Tendai traditions.Jikan wrote: Why? because as "Tendai people" we're not "Zen people." I would like to plant a seed of doubt regarding the distinction between "Zen" and "Tendai" people. Maybe I will apply to join the American Zen Teachers Association (there is one!), and initiate a Tendai People Working Group.
You are right, of course, that here "zen" does not actually mean meditation. Although, if we consider what is found in Rinzai Zen, and Korean and Chinese Buddhism, the "zen teacher" is normally the head of the meditation hall. Zen, as another word of buddha-mind, is a differnt matter. As Huangbo remarked, "Do you know that there are no teachers of Chan in all of China?" (Blue Cliff Record, case 11). And Deshan said, "My teaching has neither words nor phrases. It is actually without a Dharma that may be given to others." (Zen's Chinese Heritage, p 198) So, what is a Zen teacher then and what is there to guide to? Realisation is not given or taken, methods, however, are. Meditation is about working directly with one's mind, so giving the right instructions can indeed serve as a short cut to enlightenment. Thus, "meditation instructor" might as well do it.kirtu wrote:Buddhist realization instructor/guide. Certainly not just a meditation instructor.
The spirit of this statement is correct for Rinzai Zen in that the master/abbot (shike) is responsible for each trainee at a monastery and the progression of their practice, including the assignment of various practice methods. But just to nitpick: actually he isn't in charge of activities in the meditation hall, and usually would not spend much time there at all.Astus wrote:Although, if we consider what is found in Rinzai Zen, and Korean and Chinese Buddhism, the "zen teacher" is normally the head of the meditation hall.
That is interesting indeed.. I witnessed rinzai jukai and even asked for it, there was nothing like shasui/kanjo, but for me main point was the connection to teacher whom I appraciated so much.. Yea I may ask teachers from both inzan and takuju lineage earliest in May I guess when I have to do some translation. At the moment I live in Europe so there is no chance I could ask directly...Meido wrote: As for Rinzai practice, I know that in some jukai ceremonies the forehead can be wetted (and it is briefly mentioned in the book Japanese Rinzai Zen Buddhism: Myoshinji, a living religion) but I've also observed many Rinzai jukai ceremonies where there was nothing like that. Then as you know, things sometimes vary from teacher to teacher/lineage to lineage, and there also might be differences between smaller ceremonies and the ones held at a Daihonzan with many people.
I can say that the explanation regarding trikaya is not something I've heard in connection to Rinzai jukai. So maybe that is more a Soto thing. And again, I think what happens in the sanzen room is (practically speaking) the empowerment in Rinzai practice, since there is the possibility to experience awakening through extraordinary means (according to the power of the teacher and the ripeness of the student)...and also shoken is the entrance into being able to undertake koan kufu and other practices closely with a teacher.
So it would be interesting to have information from one of the many Rinzai teachers you know (a nice circumstance!). If you learn anything interesting, I'd appreciate if you'd share it even by PM.
Sorry for off-topic tangent here.
~ Meido
[/quote]kirtu wrote:You should. How "high up" is the criticism? There is a point of course as Zen developed from Tendai and legitimately staked a position separate from Tendai. Nonetheless in the context of Zen Buddhism in the West there should be harmony and mutual support between the Zen and Tendai traditions.Jikan wrote: Why? because as "Tendai people" we're not "Zen people." I would like to plant a seed of doubt regarding the distinction between "Zen" and "Tendai" people. Maybe I will apply to join the American Zen Teachers Association (there is one!), and initiate a Tendai People Working Group.
Kirt
http://www.americanzenteachers.org/