Tendai and Pretend-ai

Re: Tendai and Pretend-ai

Postby Jikan » Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:12 pm

kirtu wrote:
Jikan wrote:I think it means Tendai seems exotic, magical, special... and desirable to some for these reasons. Zen is easy to find by comparison.

Tendai is also obscure. There are not many English-speaking Tendai teachers. So it's easy to play make-believe and get away with it for a while.


Have you read the interview on Crooked Cucumber that spoke about Dr, Ajari? He was a self-styled Buddhist semi-scholar (there is some debate about how scholarly he was in the dharma world of 50-70's Califronia) who had followers (or groupies) and did some kind of kaihogyo (basically hikes in the mountains while chanting mantra) and some fire puja. During a Kagyu teaching the lama anted him to leave apparently. However some Zen teachers, and maybe Suzuki Roshi, tollerated him.

Anyway, this might shed light on the history of US dharma development as it pertains to Tendai.

Kirt


Good stuff, Kirt. And the Stevens book is strongly recommended as well.

Interesting bit on Dr Ajari: he was part of the scene in San Francisco that also involved Sufi Sam Lewis and, on the edges, Tarthang Tulku and Jiyu-Kennett.

Two of Dr Ajari's longtime disciples later moved on and trained formally in Tendai. And one of those is now the abbot of California Tendai Monastery. His practice emphasizes kaihogyo in the traditional shugendo way, as well as the goma. This points to something important to consider about "pretendai":

Sometimes people get some exposure to this material, develop some faith in the teachings, and the "dog's tooth" effect sets in. They develop some merit, some insight, and then consequently make contact with authentic teachings and teachers. Good things ensue.

Interestingly, when I showed a DharmaWheel thread to a follower of one of the mail-order mikkyo schools, the reply was along those lines: yes, we get this kind of response, but what matters is the results of the practice. I'd rather people have a chance to direct those efforts into more fruitful practices than the Aloha Amigo! stuff I quoted before.

***

So far in this thread I've just named a problem, but I haven't described it yet (which is to say I haven't named names very much). I'm working on a brief history of this material, and I'll post it soon, but I'm hampered because I injured my eyes yesterday and it's not much fun working on a screen at the moment. more later.
Need help getting on retreat? Want to support others in practice? Pay the Dana for Dharma forum a visit...

viewtopic.php?f=114&t=13727
Jikan
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5769
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:04 pm

Re: Tendai and Pretend-ai

Postby Jikan » Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:43 pm

It makes sense to break this "pretendai" phenomenon down into categories, because they're not all the same in form or content.

The first category has to do with a particular kind of martial arts practice. Stephen K. Hayes established this precedent with his Blue Lotus Assembly, which has since altered its presentation to emphasize its putative Tendai roots much, much less (to Mr Hayes' credit). Hayes was famous in martial arts circles late in the 20th century for his teaching of ninjutsu practices, which he still actively promotes through SKH Quest Center for Martial Arts in Ohio and elsewhere. These are a chain of for-profit outlets where you can learn how to be a contemporary ninja. Blue Lotus Assembly has been taught within these dojos. I don't know if the BLA is incorporated with the martial arts outfits or not, that is to say, I don't assume it's presented as a kind of for-profit Buddhist outlet, or where that line is drawn in the organizations' structure.

The Blue Lotus Assembly is presented as a kind of syncretic Vajrayana group: there are Japanese elements, there are Tibetan elements, but the emphasis is on the claim that esoteric transmission and tantric practice are happening there. That's the claim. Suffice it to say that this is very, very different from how mikkyo is taught and practiced Tendai-shu.

This trajectory has been followed by others. Here's an example: so-called "Bushindo University..."

http://www.ninjutsustore.com/store/home.php?cat=108

...where you can find teachings presented by one "Jisho" Richard W. Sears, who claims (not accurately) to be "an ordained teacher of Tendai Buddhism." In reality, Sears trained with Hayes, and his ordination is not (to the best of my knowledge) recognized by Tendai-shu. If you explore the site I link to above, you can see a few characteristic elements: mikkyo is presented as something you can learn from an overpriced DVD, much as you might learn Rex Kwon Do or Zumba or whatever. It's the "highest teaching" of the mystical east, available to you now, and you can do it at home. Buy now! That's the claim.

Notice also the stuff on "kuji-in" at the "Bushindo University" site. That will come up in another category of "pretendai," of which more later. For now, I would like to emphasize that Mr Hayes is evidently well-regarded by some Tibetan lamas and is also a talented teacher of martial arts. I'm not concerned with his person or his practice, but with the ways in which his past actions vis a vis Tendai have established kind of a genre in the world of martial arts teaching: your dojo is not complete until you're selling some kind of Spiritual Warriorship product line, and because Hayes tied it to Tendai, his followers do the same.
Last edited by Jikan on Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Need help getting on retreat? Want to support others in practice? Pay the Dana for Dharma forum a visit...

viewtopic.php?f=114&t=13727
Jikan
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5769
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:04 pm

Re: Tendai and Pretend-ai

Postby Caz » Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:45 pm

kirtu wrote:
Jikan wrote:That's a good question, Astus.

Here's the usual response I get back in reply when I ask one particular "mikkyo" group just what they teach:

In this tradition we study the teaching of Buddha, but also Jesus, Krishna and Melkitzdeck. We observe and grow through experiences.
....
We look to five spiritual masters for our wisdom. The first is Buddha, for the consciousness of compassion. The second, Krishna, from whom we learn to live in non-action. Non-action does not mean non acting, it means acting responsibly but not being attached to the outcome of our actions. The third is Jesus, for the consciousness of charity and forgiveness. The fourth is Melkezedek, for Divine Justice. This means that we strive to stop competing with others in any way--there is no concept of human fairness here, everything that happens we bring to ourselves to further our own spiritual evolution (he's also the father of Kabbalah, and this is taught to those who want to learn it). The fourth is MahaVajra, our current spiritual master who is a reincarnation of the MahaVajra who lived several thousand years ago. He teaches expedient means and how to efficiently purify the ego with a technique called emotional integration.

We embody this wisdom by studying processes such as Kuji-in, Kama Chakra, the Elements of Creation, Atma Yoga, Kundalini Yoga, Healing, NagaRaja process, the Siddha path, Immortality process, Quantum Metaphysics, Kabbalah, and more.


I'm not sure how this can be characterized within the context of Mahayana Buddhism, much less Tendai specifically.


What the hell is this mish-mash? This is stunning on so many levels. This is also like the New Age crap peddeled in the
80's and 90's.

Kirt


Certainly is odd :crazy:
Abandoning Dharma is, in the final analysis, disparaging the Hinayana because of the Mahayana; favoring the Hinayana on account of the Mahayana; playing off sutra against tantra; playing off the four classes of the tantras against each other; favoring one of the Tibetan schools—the Sakya, Gelug, Kagyu, or Nyingma—and disparaging the rest; and so on. In other words, we abandon Dharma any time we favor our own tenets and disparage the rest.

Liberation in the Palm of your hand~Kyabje Pabongkha Rinpoche.
Caz
 
Posts: 543
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:49 am

Re: Tendai and Pretend-ai

Postby Jikan » Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:38 pm

Another category of "pretendai" has more to do with the marketing of mudras and mantras as means of self-improvement, as in: Do X with your fingers, for POWER; do Y with your fingers, for MONEY; do Z with your fingers, for BICEPS; &c. This is the work of one Francois Lepine, who now presents himself as MahaVajra, an enlightened spiritual master. Some of his many sites:

http://www.flepine.com
http://www.mahavajra.be
http://www.kujiin.com
http://www.heavenlightstore.com
http://www.secretsofimmortality.net
http://www.seriousseeker.net
http://www.mysticknight.org
http://www.quantumbuddhism.org
http://www.trainingtk.com

(Yes: lessons in immortality, telekinesis, something like World of Warcraft, and whatever "quantum Buddhism" might be.)

and of course...
http://www.youtube.com/user/MahaVajra
http://www.facebook.com/people/Maha-Vajra/1161948166
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Dharma-Ga ... 8713341983
&c, &c...

Again, one can readily see the appeal to a mail-order-mikkyo method of transmission, but here the claim to authority is less reliant on tradition (who ordained this guy an Acharya in Tendai and Pure Land though?) and more on Lepine's presentation of himself as enlightened: MahaVajra. Curiously, his disciples and other projects are given apparently Sanskrit-derived or Sanskrit-sounding titles (like SukhiDevi, Apsaagni, Ganeshakti, Ulaasana, and of course some Vajras).

I think Lepine's numerous websites speak for themselves, although I would like to know what others think of what he's proposing.

Although I have spent significant time with some of followers, I have not met Lepine and I am not arguing that he is or is not enlightened, only that what he is doing isn't Tendai Buddhism and clearly isn't compatible with it. I find his claims on practice and his own biography (an Acharya?) highly implausible. My position is that persons who are interested in practicing Buddhism of any form will do well to avoid the products Mr Lepine is marketing, and instead to find an authentic teacher in a normal, boring lineage instead of this too-good-to-be-true appeal to magic in your mailbox (and now by skype, of course).

***

There are others out there, but between the pattern represented by Hayes and the pattern represented by Lepine, I think one can make a fairly accurate mental map of the "pretendai" landscape.
Last edited by Jikan on Tue May 03, 2011 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Need help getting on retreat? Want to support others in practice? Pay the Dana for Dharma forum a visit...

viewtopic.php?f=114&t=13727
Jikan
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5769
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:04 pm

Re: Tendai and Pretend-ai

Postby Astus » Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:59 pm

My position is that persons who are interested in practicing Buddhism of any form will do well to avoid the products Mr Lepine is marketing, and instead to find an authentic teacher in a normal, boring lineage instead of this too-good-to-be-true appeal to magic in your mailbox (and now by skype, of course).


The four empowerments imparts the complete teaching and you realise the four bodies of buddha, through pointing out transmission you awake to the true nature of mind, no guru no buddhahood, etc. When Tantra did this in India it was no less dubious for monks in orthodox monasteries than it is today for you. Authenticity comes with sustained popularity.
"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

"Neither cultivation nor seated meditation — this is the pure Chan of Tathagata."
(Mazu Daoyi, X1321p3b23; tr. Jinhua Jia)

“Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha;
True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T2076p461b24-26)
User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
 
Posts: 4203
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: Tendai and Pretend-ai

Postby Jikan » Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:38 am

That's an interesting point, but you're arguing against an argument I'm not making here, Astus. I'm not claiming that "MahaVajra" is teaching an illegitimate form of tantra because he doesn't have a clear lineage of transmission. (That is in fact my opinion, but I'm not making that claim now for my own reasons. I don't feel it's useful to pile on.)

My position is that Mr Lepine's claims about himself are implausible. Like these, from the "flepine.com" site:

Buddhist Bishop
In the Pure Land and
Vajrayana traditions


This sort of self-fashioning, for starters, makes me very skeptical about the value of his teaching. I think students would be better off with an ordinary mortal who is willing to challenge them, rather than otherwise. That is what I meant by a "boring" sangha: a sangha where people are honest with each other their own situations, and consequently can face the Matter directly.

***

But back to Astus's post. Is it so that popularity is the sole arbiter of authenticity in Vajrayana? Probably not: there are teachers who are understood to be very authentic but are also not popular. For instance, the great Chatral Rinpoche isn't exactly a globe-trotter, or by any account a candidate for Mr Popularity, but he's known to be a first-rate yogin. Dengyo Daishi was hardly an extrovert, but among other things he's a symbol of authenticity.

For myself, I think durability is a better indicator of authenticity of a practice lineage. For how long have the methods worked, and what kind of fruit does this practice bear? How long have the institutions held together, the communities of practice maintained their continuity? How long has a particular master persisted in practice?
Need help getting on retreat? Want to support others in practice? Pay the Dana for Dharma forum a visit...

viewtopic.php?f=114&t=13727
Jikan
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5769
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:04 pm

Re: Tendai and Pretend-ai

Postby Astus » Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:10 am

It is not just Vajrayana that gains authenticity from sustained popularity but every tradition. Usually it also involves some meddling with history.

He may call himself this and that, it is simply imitating others in use of special titles. And by others it is not necessarily meant Buddhist clergy but also Christian, like the term bishop. It is the expectation that a teacher himself has to bear special features (starting with the 32+80 marks) and other kinds of legitimating stuff. That's why bodhisattvas should care about the Dharma and not the person. It's emphasised exactly because the majority cares a lot more about who is teaching instead of what he's teaching. It was clearly wise on the part of the Buddha to establish a community instead of a hierarchy. But then we see how Buddhism got into establishing positions and titles.

The quality of any teaching lies in its content, I think we're very much in agreement on this. They might call it Tendai, Zen or whatever, until it is Saddharma it carries little significance. The Pretendai people you've introduced has hardly anything to show up as Buddhism, so they're agents of Mara.
"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

"Neither cultivation nor seated meditation — this is the pure Chan of Tathagata."
(Mazu Daoyi, X1321p3b23; tr. Jinhua Jia)

“Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha;
True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T2076p461b24-26)
User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
 
Posts: 4203
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: Tendai and Pretend-ai

Postby Jikan » Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:20 am

Now I understand you better, Astus. I think we're generally in agreement.

If there's anything new about this, it's the way it's expressed through digital media and through contemporary cultural forms such as the martial-arts shop.

***

It seems to me that if there's a comparison to be drawn here to experiences in other Buddhist traditions, this is the place to begin.

viewtopic.php?f=49&t=2791&start

and what may well be a simulacrum of the simulacrum:

viewtopic.php?f=49&t=2791&start
Need help getting on retreat? Want to support others in practice? Pay the Dana for Dharma forum a visit...

viewtopic.php?f=114&t=13727
Jikan
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5769
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:04 pm

Re: Tendai and Pretend-ai

Postby Jikan » Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:38 pm

Here's another treasure, this time in Brazil. If you can read some Portuguese, you can see that this is beyond the simple "prophet motive" of the MahaVajra crew, and well into the social tensions between a particular form of Brazilian nationalism and a Japanese-Brazilian minority.

http://chakubuku-aryasattva.blogspot.com
Need help getting on retreat? Want to support others in practice? Pay the Dana for Dharma forum a visit...

viewtopic.php?f=114&t=13727
Jikan
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5769
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:04 pm

Re: Tendai and Pretend-ai

Postby jikai » Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:50 am

Hi Guys,
I just found an english blog that the 'Pretendai' of Brazil has produced recently. It is quite revealing. It seems he has given up trying to convince people that his Tendai lineage has anything to do with Japanese Tendai. He even goes as far as to refer to Japanese Tendai in a particularly scathing manner. He appears to have set up his own school now which he calls: 'Tendai Hokke Ichijo Ryu' which translates as 'Tendai Lotus One Vehicle Style' by my reckoning. Some of the claims are unbelievably odd but I will not elaborate on them here. I have seen this guy before, as I'm sure many have on his Youtube channel and on his Portuguese site. This is the first time i've come across their literature in English though and it is something else! I particularly enjoyed his lineages!
Enjoy!

http://truetendailotuschool.blogspot.com.au/

Gassho
Jikai
"There are no seperate dharma's in the Three Realms. There is only the operation of the one mind."
"Whoever wishes to benefit beings ought to establish teachings that fit their capacities, expound the dharma in accordance with their capacities, and match the doctrines to them"
User avatar
jikai
 
Posts: 120
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 12:52 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Tendai and Pretend-ai

Postby jikai » Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:25 am

This is how they put it in one of the websites linked to the one above:




"The Tendai is in Japan, a "broken chain".
The teachings of the Lotus Sutra are denigrated by this institution, which under the guise of reverence do more studying. The monks eat meat and drink intoxicating drinks. The precepts are not desist violated, the monks do not fight the "falsifiers of the Act" as stated in the Sutra that "revere", usually monks use the credulity and faith to bring back money to the organization ... funeral rites are the cash cows. Tasks left by the Lotus Sutra to its practitioners are deprecated by many clergymen of the Japanese Tendai-Shu.


Unfortunately for many, the main occupation is often enjoy the belief of the common people, superstition, magical thinking to earn money through the funeral rites and the transmission of syncretic teachings distorted.


Today, they allow in the temples, psychics dressed as a monk, the rites for pecuniary gain, deceit clearly ... far from the recommendations of the Lotus Sutra, which provided yet all of these excesses."

"
The article was written in response to messages questioning the legitimacy of THIRB as an "order Tendai reformed." Critics do not criticize the person of Master Dharmananda, who studied with his master for 13 years, but the introduction of a new branch of the Tendai sect that is independent of all branches Japanese.


Dharmananda, in the first part of the article, more technical, discusses the concept of transmission in the historical context of every Buddhist school has on Japanese soil. Allowing it to highlight the existence, for each school, a historical lineage, always based on a mythical lineage, built according to the links that each school loom with the patriarchs it chooses.


In the second part of the text, translated below and also very technical, Dharmananda details the lineage of the Tendai sect, and the reformed Order Tendai Hokke Ichijo Ryu in particular.
-------------------------------------------------- --------


The Tendai it also ennobles a lineage "mythical". Lineage as admitted in THE Tendai, as are several branches in Japan itself, is as follows:


This line would be increased from Shakyamuni Buddha, the historical Buddha, by up to 12 Indian masters Nagarjuna, Nagarjuna at Suryasoma, a prince of Yarkand (now in China, to the Uigur region) who have taught the doctrines in Mahayana Kumarajiva (translator the Lotus Sutra and the Treaty of Perfection of Knowledge-Prajna-Paramita). Kumarajiva left two masterpieces that will attract the Chinese layman Futa Shih (479-569 CE) on the Mahayana path of Kumarajiva, and him, Hui-Wen, Ssu-Hui and Chih-I.


Other lines tell us that Hui-Wen was a disciple of Nagarjuna, as it was illuminated by reading his writings, thus creating an "ideological transmission line" called "Ryozen"."






















Detect languageAfrikaansAlbanianArabicArmenianAzerbaijaniBasqueBelarusianBengaliBulgarianCatalan ChineseCroatianCzechDanishDutchEnglishEsperantoEstonianFilipinoFinnishFrench GalicianGeorgianGermanGreekGujaratiHaitian CreoleHebrewHindiHungarianIcelandicIndonesian IrishItalianJapaneseKannadaKoreanLatinLatvianLithuanianMacedonianMalayMaltese NorwegianPersianPolishPortugueseRomanianRussianSerbianSlovakSlovenianSpanishSwahili SwedishTamilTeluguThaiTurkishUkrainianUrduVietnameseWelshYiddish
"There are no seperate dharma's in the Three Realms. There is only the operation of the one mind."
"Whoever wishes to benefit beings ought to establish teachings that fit their capacities, expound the dharma in accordance with their capacities, and match the doctrines to them"
User avatar
jikai
 
Posts: 120
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 12:52 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Tendai and Pretend-ai

Postby Doko » Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:44 am

Jikan wrote:It makes sense to break this "pretendai" phenomenon down into categories, because they're not all the same in form or content.

The first category has to do with a particular kind of martial arts practice. Stephen K. Hayes established this precedent with his Blue Lotus Assembly, which has since altered its presentation to emphasize its putative Tendai roots much, much less (to Mr Hayes' credit). Hayes was famous in martial arts circles late in the 20th century for his teaching of ninjutsu practices, which he still actively promotes through SKH Quest Center for Martial Arts in Ohio and elsewhere. These are a chain of for-profit outlets where you can learn how to be a contemporary ninja. Blue Lotus Assembly has been taught within these dojos. I don't know if the BLA is incorporated with the martial arts outfits or not, that is to say, I don't assume it's presented as a kind of for-profit Buddhist outlet, or where that line is drawn in the organizations' structure.

The Blue Lotus Assembly is presented as a kind of syncretic Vajrayana group: there are Japanese elements, there are Tibetan elements, but the emphasis is on the claim that esoteric transmission and tantric practice are happening there. That's the claim. Suffice it to say that this is very, very different from how mikkyo is taught and practiced Tendai-shu.

This trajectory has been followed by others. Here's an example: so-called "Bushindo University..."

http://www.ninjutsustore.com/store/home.php?cat=108" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

...where you can find teachings presented by one "Jisho" Richard W. Sears, who claims (not accurately) to be "an ordained teacher of Tendai Buddhism." In reality, Sears trained with Hayes, and his ordination is not (to the best of my knowledge) recognized by Tendai-shu. If you explore the site I link to above, you can see a few characteristic elements: mikkyo is presented as something you can learn from an overpriced DVD, much as you might learn Rex Kwon Do or Zumba or whatever. It's the "highest teaching" of the mystical east, available to you now, and you can do it at home. Buy now! That's the claim.

Notice also the stuff on "kuji-in" at the "Bushindo University" site. That will come up in another category of "pretendai," of which more later. For now, I would like to emphasize that Mr Hayes is evidently well-regarded by some Tibetan lamas and is also a talented teacher of martial arts. I'm not concerned with his person or his practice, but with the ways in which his past actions vis a vis Tendai have established kind of a genre in the world of martial arts teaching: your dojo is not complete until you're selling some kind of Spiritual Warriorship product line, and because Hayes tied it to Tendai, his followers do the same.


Maybe the reason why Stephen follows this trend could be the connection between some of the schools that form the Bujinkan and . . . Shugendo?

http://mobilemouse.co.nz/ninjutsu/ryu.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kukishin-ry%C5%AB
Gassho,
Doko
Doko
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:24 pm
Location: Denver, Colorado

Re: Tendai and Pretend-ai

Postby Jikan » Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:47 am

That's interesting stuff. I'm ignorant of martial arts history and practice... thank you for the background on this

related thread:

viewtopic.php?f=66&t=3945
Need help getting on retreat? Want to support others in practice? Pay the Dana for Dharma forum a visit...

viewtopic.php?f=114&t=13727
Jikan
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5769
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:04 pm

Re: Tendai and Pretend-ai

Postby Doko » Thu Sep 04, 2014 11:50 pm

It seems that Stephen Hayes is doing the same sort of thing but this time with Shugendo.

http://www.koryu-shugen.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://shugendo.org/node/18" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Gassho,
Doko
Doko
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:24 pm
Location: Denver, Colorado

Re: Tendai and Pretend-ai

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Fri Sep 05, 2014 3:26 am

Doko wrote:It seems that Stephen Hayes is doing the same sort of thing but this time with Shugendo.

http://www.koryu-shugen.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://shugendo.org/node/18" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Stephen Hayes :thinking:
"We're chained to the world and we all gotta pull" -Tom Waits
User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 3037
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA

Re: Tendai and Pretend-ai

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Fri Sep 05, 2014 3:26 am

Doko wrote:It seems that Stephen Hayes is doing the same sort of thing but this time with Shugendo.

http://www.koryu-shugen.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://shugendo.org/node/18" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Stephen Hayes :thinking:
"We're chained to the world and we all gotta pull" -Tom Waits
User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 3037
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA

Re: Tendai and Pretend-ai

Postby Son of Buddha » Fri Sep 05, 2014 4:19 am

Are these guys Tendai?

http://www.hongakujodo.com/
User avatar
Son of Buddha
 
Posts: 963
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:48 pm

Re: Tendai and Pretend-ai

Postby Seishin » Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:04 pm

Your answer can be found here viewtopic.php?f=64&t=2160

Gassho,
Seishin
User avatar
Seishin
Former staff member
 
Posts: 1468
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:53 am

Re: Tendai and Pretend-ai

Postby Redfaery » Tue Sep 30, 2014 4:39 pm

jikai wrote:This is how they put it in one of the websites linked to the one above:




"The Tendai is in Japan, a "broken chain".
The teachings of the Lotus Sutra are denigrated by this institution, which under the guise of reverence do more studying. The monks eat meat and drink intoxicating drinks. The precepts are not desist violated, the monks do not fight the "falsifiers of the Act" as stated in the Sutra that "revere", usually monks use the credulity and faith to bring back money to the organization ... funeral rites are the cash cows. Tasks left by the Lotus Sutra to its practitioners are deprecated by many clergymen of the Japanese Tendai-Shu.


Unfortunately for many, the main occupation is often enjoy the belief of the common people, superstition, magical thinking to earn money through the funeral rites and the transmission of syncretic teachings distorted.


Today, they allow in the temples, psychics dressed as a monk, the rites for pecuniary gain, deceit clearly ... far from the recommendations of the Lotus Sutra, which provided yet all of these excesses."-


Oh, that...makes me want to cry. I've been to Japan. There's nothing wrong with Buddhism there. Buddhism is alive and well. It's part of the society. It's part of everyday life.
Om Sam Sarasvatyai Namah
ON SORASOVATI EI SOWAKA
User avatar
Redfaery
 
Posts: 138
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:14 pm
Location: Raleigh, North Carolina

Re: Tendai and Pretend-ai

Postby Jikan » Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:17 pm

Redfaery wrote: I've been to Japan. There's nothing wrong with Buddhism there. Buddhism is alive and well. It's part of the society. It's part of everyday life.


There's a lot to appreciate about Japanese Buddhism generally, and Tendai-shu in particular. It's not perfect, of course; there are real problems and we should recognize those. So I'm not at all convinced by the kind of black-or-white thinking that gets thrown around sometimes, because it's too easy to lose sight of the mostly-truly-wonderful and the occasionally-maybe-not-so-great aspects of it.
Need help getting on retreat? Want to support others in practice? Pay the Dana for Dharma forum a visit...

viewtopic.php?f=114&t=13727
Jikan
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5769
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:04 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Tendai

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

>