Kukai's progressive view of the Hinayana?

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DrLang
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Kukai's progressive view of the Hinayana?

Post by DrLang »

In reading Kukai's Secret Key to the Heart Sutra, I could not help but notice a point which seems out of place with the prevalent ideas within Mahayana literature regarding the Hinayana.
The text: gate gate pāragate pārasaṃgate bodhi svāhā.

There are five units in the mantra, the secret treasury. The first gate reveals the attainment of the śrāvakas. The second gate indicates the attainment of the pratyekabuddhas. The third, pāragate, points to the highest attainment of the various Mahayanists. The fourth, pārasaṃgate, clarifies the attainment in which the mandala world of enlightement is fully realized by the Mantrayanists. The fifth, bodhi svāhā, explains the ultimate realization of each of the foregoing approaches. These are the general meanings of the clause. If each word, however, should be interpreted from the point of view of its ultimate meanings, immeasurable significances (for example, that each word stands for certain Buddhas, certain doctrines, etc.) would be revealed. It is impossible to go into details.
This seems to suggest a certain level of equality between the enlightenment realized in the Hinayana teachings and the Mahayana teachings. Is this a progressive view of the time? Or is the general perception that followers of Mahayana teachings looked down upon followers of Hinayana teachings over stated? Certainly Kukai wrote of different paths requireing different lengths of time to realize unsurpased bodhi, but other Mahayana liturature seems to suggest that those on the path of the Arhat simply will not ever realize the highest level of enlightenment.

I can't find where I saw it, but I recall reading in another work by Kukai that those who would master the esoteric teachings first need to master the teachings of the Hinayana and the exoteric teachings of the Mahayana. This to me suggests his view was that all such teachings stand on some level of equal ground.
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randomseb
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Re: Kukai's progressive view of the Hinayana?

Post by randomseb »

To me, every path of spirituality eventually seems to say "we're better than x, y, z, follow our way, other ways are inferior".

This is no different.

Who can be right?

:shrug:
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DrLang
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Re: Kukai's progressive view of the Hinayana?

Post by DrLang »

randomseb wrote:To me, every path of spirituality eventually seems to say "we're better than x, y, z, follow our way, other ways are inferior".

This is no different.

Who can be right?
But that's the interesting thing to me here. At a time (albet, perhaps a poorly defined time) when the liturature I read is quite negative towards the Hinayana, here we see Kukai being quite even handed. And his other writings are also even handed with regards to the exoteric and the esoteric teachings. We don't see much of an attempt to push other teachings down while promoting his teaching. Rather, he seems to have been able to elevate and propagate the esoteric as not something in competition with other schools.
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WuMing
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Re: Kukai's progressive view of the Hinayana?

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DrLang wrote:In reading Kukai's Secret Key to the Heart Sutra, I could not help but notice a point which seems out of place with the prevalent ideas within Mahayana literature regarding the Hinayana.
The text: gate gate pāragate pārasaṃgate bodhi svāhā.

There are five units in the mantra, the secret treasury. The first gate reveals the attainment of the śrāvakas. The second gate indicates the attainment of the pratyekabuddhas. The third, pāragate, points to the highest attainment of the various Mahayanists. The fourth, pārasaṃgate, clarifies the attainment in which the mandala world of enlightement is fully realized by the Mantrayanists. The fifth, bodhi svāhā, explains the ultimate realization of each of the foregoing approaches. These are the general meanings of the clause. If each word, however, should be interpreted from the point of view of its ultimate meanings, immeasurable significances (for example, that each word stands for certain Buddhas, certain doctrines, etc.) would be revealed. It is impossible to go into details.
This seems to suggest a certain level of equality between the enlightenment realized in the Hinayana teachings and the Mahayana teachings. Is this a progressive view of the time? Or is the general perception that followers of Mahayana teachings looked down upon followers of Hinayana teachings over stated? Certainly Kukai wrote of different paths requireing different lengths of time to realize unsurpased bodhi, but other Mahayana liturature seems to suggest that those on the path of the Arhat simply will not ever realize the highest level of enlightenment.

I can't find where I saw it, but I recall reading in another work by Kukai that those who would master the esoteric teachings first need to master the teachings of the Hinayana and the exoteric teachings of the Mahayana. This to me suggests his view was that all such teachings stand on some level of equal ground.
As I understand it, there are different levels of results in one's training, which Kūkai "divides" into the realizations of the Śrāvaka-yana, Pratyeka-buddha-yana and the Mahāyāna and finally a complete realization achieved through Shingon teachings. So, I would say that there are definitely different levels of realization, they may stand on an equal ground but the depth of it varies as pointed out by him and it is not a matter of right or wrong.
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DrLang
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Re: Kukai's progressive view of the Hinayana?

Post by DrLang »

WuMing wrote:So, I would say that there are definitely different levels of realization, they may stand on an equal ground but the depth of it varies as pointed out by him and it is not a matter of right or wrong.
This much is clear. Kukai attributed the Ten Stages of the Mind to such vehicles as follows. If I have understood correctly:
  • 4. The Mind of Aggregates-only and No-self: śrāvakas
    5. The Mind That Has Eradicated the Causes and Seeds of Karma: pratyekabuddhas
    6. The Mind of the Mahayana Concerned for Others: bodhisattvahood realized via the Hosso and Sanron path
    7. The Mind Awakened to the Non-Birth of the Mind: bodhisattvahood realized via the Hosso and Sanron path
    8. The Mind of the One Path, Unconditioned: Buddhahood realized via the Tendai and Kegon path
    9. The Mind of Ultimate Own-naturelessness: Buddhahood realized via the Tendai and Kegon path
    10. The Mind of Secret Adornment: Buddhahood realized via the Mantra path
Though, Kukai goes on to state
Each of these vehicles may appropriate the name "Buddha" for its own vehicle, but when viewed in light of the subsequent vehicles, it becomes a frivolous assertion. None of the previous stages of the mind is stationary, and therefore they are described as having no own-nature; none of the subsequent stages of the mind is the ultimate fruit and therefore they are all causes.
Causes of what though? Causes of the subsequent stage? Perhaps this is why Kukai asserts that each of these paths leads to the same bodhi. Should we believe that once one enters the state of the sravaka, that it is only a matter of time before the being will progress to the tenth stage?
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WuMing
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Re: Kukai's progressive view of the Hinayana?

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I was taught and understand it this way: It all depends on how you read and understand the text, be it an exoteric text or an esoteric text. And the same is true for his Ten Stages model. It can be read differently, in a more broader view. It all depends on the ability of the practitioner and how deep his realization goes, superficial understandings may lead to the described results of the different vehicles but not further, so the realizations and awakenings achieved on certain levels are not the ultimate. But if one has the capability to read and practice beyond the superficial meanings and understandings, then that may lead to the highest realization, and therefore it is not really a matter of time but a matter of capabilty.

But I don't want to elaborate on that too much from my point of view or my limited understanding, respectively, but would rather like to let Kūkai's words come alive:
The eyes of a great physician see [plants growing by] the wayside each as medicine [where others see only weeds]. A man who knows gemstones sees jewels [where others see only] rocks and stones. [Those who know the esoteric] know, and [those who know only the exoteric] do not know.
Secret Key to the Heart Sutra
and this one
[Whether the content of a text is] exoteric or esoteric depends on the [discriminative ability] of the reader. It is not a matter of the sounds and letters [of that text]. Nevertheless, there is the esoteric within the exoteric, and the most esoteric within the esoteric. The shallow and profound take on mulitlayered meanings [relative to each other].
Secret Key to the Heart Sutra
and here
The teachings of the Tathāgata always have both superficial exoteric and deep esoteric meanings. The exoteric is what is ordinarily discussed. The esoteric is what is expaline in the secret treasury. …
Secret Gāthās on the Suvarnaprabhāsa-sūtra
and here
A person who has not yet grasped the esoteric significances of the names of all dharmas, the marks of words and names, and the words of truth and the words of suchness may preach, meditate, and cultivate, but it will all be warped. It will all be useless conceptual proliferation. This is because that person does not apprehend true and ultimate reality.
The Meanings of the Letter Hūṃ
Hope that helps!

All quotes are from Rev. Eijō's translations in his book Kūkai on the Philosophy of Language

PS: a general note and as a guideline for any further future discussion: please name quotes and sources.
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WuMing
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Re: Kukai's progressive view of the Hinayana?

Post by WuMing »

correction to my post above: Kūkai's work Secret Key to the Heart Sutra is not included in Rev. Eijō's translations in his book Kūkai on the Philosophy of Language, it's a translation published separately.

one further note: the approach to awakening of the stages prior to the tenth stage in Kūkai's model is only vertical and a causal one (inbun 因分). This changes completely in the tenth stage, which is horizontal and a resultant one (kabun 果分) in which any distinction between exoteric and esoteric is dissolved; and here again the capacity of the practitioner comes into play. So, the view is entirely different in the realization of the tenth stage, than the view in the stages prior to the tenth stage. While one is cruising through the different stages or dwelling in a particular stage, it can be said that there is a necessity of time required to practice, but from the point of view of the tenth stage, there is no time required.
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DrLang
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Re: Kukai's progressive view of the Hinayana?

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WuMing wrote:one further note: the approach to awakening of the stages prior to the tenth stage in Kūkai's model is only vertical and a causal one (inbun 因分). This changes completely in the tenth stage, which is horizontal and a resultant one (kabun 果分) in which any distinction between exoteric and esoteric is dissolved; and here again the capacity of the practitioner comes into play. So, the view is entirely different in the realization of the tenth stage, than the view in the stages prior to the tenth stage. While one is cruising through the different stages or dwelling in a particular stage, it can be said that there is a necessity of time required to practice, but from the point of view of the tenth stage, there is no time required.
This I thought was made quite clear in The Precious Key to the Secret Treasury as previously quoted (sadly it seems Dharmawheel does not allow me to go back and correct my lack of citations). Expanded here to capture further relevant context.
Each of these vehicles may appropriate the name "Buddha" for its own vehicle, but when viewed in light of the subsequent vehicles, it becomes a frivolous assertion. None of the previous stages of the mind is stationary, and therefore they are described as having no own-nature; none of the subsequent stages of the mind is the ultimate fruit and therefore they are all causes. When viewed successively in relation to each other, each is profound and wonderous, and therefore they become "progressively deeper and progressively more wonderous."
The Precious Key to the Secret Treasury as translated by Rolf Giebel; see Shingon Texts
However, at least in The Precious Key, Kūkai does not expound on what precisely these stages of the mind are causes of. If we consider that a śrāvaka, a bodhisattva, or a Buddha has awoken to a state from which there is no return to that of a deluded being, then it stands to reason that the only progression possible from that point is up. If that progression is possible, then it would seem to me that these states of mind would be causes for the peeling away of dual concepts, ultimately causing the being to progress to the next higher state of mind.

There is a careful distinction here though, because the tenth stage of the mind is the ultimate and presumably perfect non-dual identity with Mahāvairocana. How then could the ninth stage be the cause of the tenth stage? Rather, it would seem that it is the elimination of the barriers preventing the being from such a realization that the stages of the mind would be the cause of.

In light of this, it makes perfect sense to me that Kūkai would assert in The Secret Key to the Heart Sutra that
The fifth, bodhi svāhā, explains the ultimate realization of each of the foregoing approaches.
The Secret Key to the Heart Sutra; Kūkai: Major Works
How else could we suggest that the path of the śrāvakas, boddhisattvas, and the miriad of Buddhas have the same ultimate realization unless they all ultimately lead to the perfect non-dual identity with the Dharmakaya? Time is, of course, ultimately a non-issue when taken in context of the originally unborn.

But more to the original point of the thread, all of this seems to indicate that Kūkai did not present the Shingon teachings as distinctly superior to other teachings. Rather, he seems to present the Shingon teachings as the ultimate destination that all cultivators are heading towards. This seems to stand in stark contrast to some of the liturature of other schools of Buddhism who always seem to be vying for dominance of some form or another. I find this to be fascinating and appears to be another piece of evidence to support Abe's assertion in The Weaving of Mantra that the success of Shingon had more to do with Kūkai's ability to integrate Shingon with the teachings of other schools than it did with the idea that he pushed Shingon as a clearly superior and distinct teaching.
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WuMing
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Re: Kukai's progressive view of the Hinayana?

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again, (maybe that point was not clear enough articulated in my other posts) as I understand it the approach to bodhi is causal in stages other than the tenth. in the tenth the approach to bodhi is from the resultant point of view.
it is not that one stage is a cause for another stage.
... Kūkai's ability to integrate Shingon with the teachings of other schools than it did with the idea that he pushed Shingon as a clearly superior and distinct teaching.
true. ultimately, Kūkai's view is that all teachings come from Mahavairocana, and so, from that point of view none is superior.
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DrLang
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Re: Kukai's progressive view of the Hinayana?

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WuMing wrote:again, (maybe that point was not clear enough articulated in my other posts) as I understand it the approach to bodhi is causal in stages other than the tenth. in the tenth the approach to bodhi is from the resultant point of view.
it is not that one stage is a cause for another stage.
I think we are in agreement on this point, though perhaps using slightly different language to explain. This was my intended meaning by
... the tenth stage of the mind is the ultimate and presumably perfect non-dual identity with Mahāvairocana. How then could the ninth stage be the cause of the tenth stage? Rather, it would seem that it is the elimination of the barriers preventing the being from such a realization that the stages of the mind would be the cause of.
This has been an interesting exchange. Now realizing that we are essentially saying the same thing, I will re-read your previous posts to see another way to articulate this point.
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WuMing
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Re: Kukai's progressive view of the Hinayana?

Post by WuMing »

... How then could the ninth stage be the cause of the tenth stage? Rather, it would seem that it is the elimination of the barriers preventing the being from such a realization that the stages of the mind would be the cause of.
This is one view, but Shingon offers practices, which, if done properly, lead to the experience of bodhi or the unity with Mahavairocana without the need of going through prior stages necessarily. The stages model is not progressive, fundamentally, not black and white.
The kengyō hold that [a sea of] practices plant the causes; mikkyō talks about the perfect and complete [sea of] virtues of the [Dharmakāya in its] essence.

Kenmitsu Fudō Ju by Kakuban translated by Hendrik van der Veere
Life is great and death has to be just as great as life.
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People not only don't know what's happening to them, they don't even know that they don't know.
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