a healthy sex life.

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Re: a healthy sex life.

Postby Alfredo » Thu Oct 17, 2013 1:25 am

I think the idea is that (a) by renouncing sexual relations, you also reduce lustful thoughts (does this really work?), which are considered bad; and (b) work, marriage, and family take up time that could be better spent on, I dunno, meditating or something.
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Re: a healthy sex life.

Postby michaelb » Thu Oct 17, 2013 1:42 am

I was once told that oral and anal sex weren't good for vajrayana practitioners as they created problems with the deities in the body mandala. Anyone else heard that?
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Re: a healthy sex life.

Postby Alfredo » Thu Oct 17, 2013 2:08 am

Or to use the Southeast Asian vernacular, "boom boom okay, no yum yum, no ow ow."
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Re: a healthy sex life.

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Thu Oct 17, 2013 2:25 am

michaelb wrote:I was once told that oral and anal sex weren't good for vajrayana practitioners as they created problems with the deities in the body mandala. Anyone else heard that?


Wonder if giving or receiving is worse. I have heard similar though, as well as ideas about ejaculation - in the context of masturbation- similar to those I was familiar with from Daoism..i.e. relax, don't do it.
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
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Re: a healthy sex life.

Postby Adamantine » Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:47 am

michaelb wrote:I was once told that oral and anal sex weren't good for vajrayana practitioners as they created problems with the deities in the body mandala. Anyone else heard that?


yup.
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Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
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Re: a healthy sex life.

Postby Adamantine » Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:52 am

Alfredo wrote:Buddhist rhetoric often imagines married life to be one long stretch of selfish, sensual indulgence. As a married man, I only wish that were true. In fact it's a great way to break down one's ego!


yup. it's possible that there are many 'monks' who are more sexually active than many married men!
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Re: a healthy sex life.

Postby disjointed » Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:57 am

KonchokZoepa wrote:
Simon E. wrote:
disjointed wrote:Maybe you should make a poll with all the different sexual practices you can think of?

I did notice the bit about not having had a sex life. That's actually not the case. You may have actually seen videos of me and another online a few years ago.

Oh and that cam shows. I hope no one recorded those but I know how the internet works.
PM me for links <3 ROFL

There is something.....off, about you.


yes, im like wtf.

lol
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Re: a healthy sex life.

Postby ClearblueSky » Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:47 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
michaelb wrote:I was once told that oral and anal sex weren't good for vajrayana practitioners as they created problems with the deities in the body mandala. Anyone else heard that?


Wonder if giving or receiving is worse. I have heard similar though, as well as ideas about ejaculation - in the context of masturbation- similar to those I was familiar with from Daoism..i.e. relax, don't do it.

Yes, but unless you have the practices to deal with that energetically, you're probably better off ejaculating. Both vow-wise and health-wise, you're better off keeping normal sex normal and allowing yourself to ejaculate, unless you really, really know what you're doing.
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Re: a healthy sex life.

Postby KonchokZoepa » Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:55 pm

Adamantine wrote:
michaelb wrote:I was once told that oral and anal sex weren't good for vajrayana practitioners as they created problems with the deities in the body mandala. Anyone else heard that?


yup.


guilty of oral sex here, what problems does it create with deities and the body mandala?
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Re: a healthy sex life.

Postby daverupa » Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:57 pm

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: a healthy sex life.

Postby ClearblueSky » Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:54 pm

KonchokZoepa wrote:
Adamantine wrote:
michaelb wrote:I was once told that oral and anal sex weren't good for vajrayana practitioners as they created problems with the deities in the body mandala. Anyone else heard that?


yup.


guilty of oral sex here, what problems does it create with deities and the body mandala?

You're not guilty of anything, and unless you're already doing practices where you have teachings on the body mandala of a deity, I genuinely don't see why it's a problem, though I'm sure someone may disagree. If Ganapati can do it I think you'll be alright:
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Re: a healthy sex life.

Postby KonchokZoepa » Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:58 pm

ok i dont think i have teaching and practices where i do body mandala of a deity..

i practice chenrezig self generation though i guess its a body mandala. well anyway.
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Re: a healthy sex life.

Postby ClearblueSky » Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:59 pm

KonchokZoepa wrote:ok i dont think i have teaching and practices where i do body mandala of a deity..

i practice chenrezig self generation though i guess its a body mandala. well anyway.


Practicing a self-generation doesn't mean you're practicing a body mandala. If it's a kriya yoga practice of chenrezig, there are conduct guidelines that are supposed to be better for the practice. The only part for a modern layperson potentially connected to sex I can think of is the body is supposed to be clean for kriya practices (both in and out), so it's probably not ideal to have sweaty sex then immediately do the practice without showering in between. There may also be something about not having sex before you've done the puja for the day, or not doing it on certain days if you're practicing very seriously, but I'm not sure and maybe someone else can shed light on that.
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Re: a healthy sex life.

Postby KonchokZoepa » Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:03 pm

what do you mean by body needing to be pure ''inside''?
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Re: a healthy sex life.

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:43 am

KonchokZoepa wrote:what do you mean by body needing to be pure ''inside''?



Break out the colonics prior to sadhana..only solution:)


Sorry, couldn't resist.

Seriously though, I assume this "inner purity" in the reason for things like the rules for not having sex 24 hours prior to some practices, not eating onions and garlic, etc.
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
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Re: a healthy sex life.

Postby ClearblueSky » Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:52 am

Haha, now that's dedication Johnny.

And yep that's what I'm referring to, I remember the Sadhana/my Lama referring to garlic and other strong foods, keeping the body clean, not eating meat or drinking alcohol, and not smoking in the morning before the practice. You're intentionally keeping an outer conduct view, like when you put offerings on the altar.
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Re: a healthy sex life.

Postby Zhen Li » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:14 am

What exactly is a "healthy" sex life? Is it what is ideal? Fun? Pure? Transgressive? Or what maintains good medical health?

If it's not about health, as I see the thread hasn't interpreted it as being, then at least from the Buddhist perspective, I feel like the phrase "healthy sex life" is a bit of a loaded statement.
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Re: a healthy sex life.

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:48 am

Zhen Li wrote:What exactly is a "healthy" sex life? Is it what is ideal? Fun? Pure? Transgressive? Or what maintains good medical health?

If it's not about health, as I see the thread hasn't interpreted it as being, then at least from the Buddhist perspective, I feel like the phrase "healthy sex life" is a bit of a loaded statement.


Don't dwell so much on the semantics, there is no "loading", it's a simple question, particularly if you read the whole thread.


What is being asked is basically what constitutes a sex life that is the least harmful/interferes with practice the least...beyond just the usual answers one hears of celibacy on the one hand, and permissiveness on the other, obviously.
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
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Re: a healthy sex life.

Postby rory » Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:02 am

Ah isn't anyone here familiar with the teachings on non-dualism by famous master Zhiyi, founder of the Tiantai sect:

Ven Indrajala translated this:
《妙法蓮華經玄義》卷5:「凡夫一念。皆有十界識名色等。苦道性相。迷此苦道生死浩然。此是迷法身為苦道。不離苦道別有法身。如迷南為北無別南也。若悟生死即是法身。故云苦道性相即是法身性相也。」(CBETA, T33, no. 1716, p. 744, a3-7)

A single moment of thought of an ordinary being always possesses the consciousnesses, names and forms of the ten realms. The nature and characteristics of the path of suffering – they misunderstand this path of suffering, and saṃsāra remains expansive. This is misunderstanding the dharmakāya as the path of suffering. There is no separate dharmakāya apart from the path of suffering, like mistaking south as north, there is no separate south. If one realizes saṃsāra, then it is the dharmakāya. Thus it is said the nature and characteristics of the path of suffering are the nature and characteristics of the dharmakāya.



So the sex vs celibacy argument is one of dualism. Whatever sex leads you to enlightenment is the best kind.
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Re: a healthy sex life.

Postby Astus » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:27 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:In terms of taking words literally, simply following the 3rd precept is pretty easy, I have actually done that my whole sex life, prior to even being a Buddhist. So obviously, what i'm asking goes beyond just "the basics" of literal interpretation, since to follow Buddhas historical suggestions for layfolks on the subject actually is not too taxing.


The first precept is not to kill (or torture) humans. That's not very taxing either. Isn't it important anyway? Most often keeping the five precepts and avoiding the ten wrong actions are difficult only in a given situation. What is actually karmically binding is not even the action itself but the intention and the attachment behind that (an important difference between Jainism and Buddhism). So, the third precept is good as it is, and it is about avoiding doing bad things, being free from the three lower realms.

Going beyond the basics can be done in various ways. To simplify, let's use the classic set of "avoid bad, do good, purify mind". Avoiding bad is keeping the third precept, and it can be extended with further restrictions (new and full moons, place, time, etc.), but it seems to me personally that those added rules are often more cultural than a logical consequence of the teachings, so we could as well switch them to our own cultural superstitions that we already abide by. To do good in terms of sex is likely to be about kindness and putting others in front of ourselves, giving up self-interest. In other words, being loving and caring. The most interesting part is purifying mind. This is about being aware and in control of our emotions and thoughts. It helps tremendously in accomplishing the first two points, and gives us a degree of freedom. Although Ajahn Brahm advertises jhanas by saying that it's better than sex, for the non-celibates, meditation makes sex better, as it helps removing the distractions from our mind and strengthens openness and focus.

I'll also be frank here, i'm interested in this question particular from the viewpoints of people (maybe with a few years under their belts) who have had normal, or abnormal sex lives, and how they view this stuff as regards their Buddhist practice.


As I see it, like with every other activity, one should incorporate sex into one's practice of embodying the bodhisattva virtues and perfections. I believe it is a problem to consider sex something extraordinary and special, while actually there are very few things that are more common among humans, like talking and hugging.
"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
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Does marvelous nature and spirit
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Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T51n2076, p461b24-26)
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