Treeleaf Sangha

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myozankodo
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Treeleaf Sangha

Postby myozankodo » Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:09 pm

Hello all,
I'm new here and have just been looking around. I did a search on my own Sangha (Treeleaf, where I am an Unsui), and found this:

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=11646

I was curious, in what way exactly is Treeleaf controversial?

Gassho,
Myozan

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Re: Treeleaf Sangha

Postby DGA » Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:50 pm


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myozankodo
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Re: Treeleaf Sangha

Postby myozankodo » Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:38 pm

Hi Jikan,
Thanks for your reply. I understand that some find the ordinations at Treeleaf controversial. I know all about that controversy. Yep.
But you were making a comparison between Treeleaf and the Five Mountain Zen Order. In what sense are both similarly controversial?
Gassho
Myozan

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Re: Treeleaf Sangha

Postby DGA » Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:54 pm


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Re: Treeleaf Sangha

Postby DGA » Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:01 pm


shel
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Re: Treeleaf Sangha

Postby shel » Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:38 pm

Hi Myozankodo,

While we're on the subject of controversy, may I ask why Shinkai 'Allison' (the only female priest at Treeleaf) "retired" from novice priest training after only just beginning?

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myozankodo
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Re: Treeleaf Sangha

Postby myozankodo » Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:06 pm

Thanks Jikan for the clarification. I understand now. You were not making a direct comparison between the Five Mountain Zen Order and Treeleaf. Rather you flagged that online ordination at Treeleaf is controversial in some quarters, which I know it is.
Hi Shel. You asked about Shinkai leaving priest training at Treeleaf? Sure.
My understanding, based on what Shinkai said herself around the time of her departure, is that what with her commitments at work in Facebook, she realized (as her training began) that the time commitment for rigorous Unsui training was just not something she could accommodate in her busy life. It was a difficult decision for her, and we all understood that at Treeleaf. That's about it, as I understand it. Do ask Shinkai yourself.

Also, I'm sure other priests will be ordained at Treeleaf: female and male.

Just to clarify: It seems to me the online ordination question is just about the only controversial thing at Treeleaf. There have been no money or sex scandals. Indeed, there is no money involved in the Sangha experience … no donations, fees, etc. Not everyone might appreciate every teacher's teaching style. But that's why we all choose the Sangha that we are comfortable in, that fits us. After three years at Treeleaf, I can honestly say that the two teachers have been above reproach in their conduct … even if some people do find the raison d'être of the Sangha (an online Sangha for people with no Zen centre near them) to be something they find it hard to get their head around. Different strokes for different folks.
What looks good at DharmaWheel is the breath of the discussion. I look forward to having a good look round.
Gassho
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Re: Treeleaf Sangha

Postby shel » Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:19 pm


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Re: Treeleaf Sangha

Postby DGA » Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:56 am


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Re: Treeleaf Sangha

Postby Dan74 » Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:56 am

I think it's incredible that Jundo dedicates so much energy to Treeleaf and asks for no payments and donations. I also think that for those with no possibility of access to a "real-space" Sangha, this is an interesting and potentially useful idea.

Personally I have reservations about Jundo but they are mine and if your practice there is strong, that's the main thing.

All the best.

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oushi
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Re: Treeleaf Sangha

Postby oushi » Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:33 am

Say what you think about me

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Re: Treeleaf Sangha

Postby Dan74 » Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:44 am

I don't think Jundo was banned from ZFI.

Simon E.
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Re: Treeleaf Sangha

Postby Simon E. » Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:05 am

" My heart's in the Highlands
my heart is not here.
My heart's in the Highlands
chasing the deer."

Robert V.C. Burns.

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Re: Treeleaf Sangha

Postby Grigoris » Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:36 am

People do not necessarily get banned from fora for their ideas. Many people get banned for the manner in which they express their ideas. A troll may say something that is true, what makes them a troll is the manner in which they say it. A person can be banned for being aggressive, disruptive, deceptive, brusque, defamatory, rude, impolite, overbearing, etc...

In my time as a moderator here at Dharma Wheel, nobody has been banned for their views "in and of themselves". Many have been banned for their, to use a broad term that covers all the abovementioned categories, social ineptitude.
:namaste:
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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myozankodo
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Re: Treeleaf Sangha

Postby myozankodo » Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:43 pm

Hi all,
I really am not concerned with what you think about Jundo. I’m also not concerned about your history with Jundo. That has nothing to do with me. I speak for myself, not Jundo.

(That said, in my experience, Jundo is fair-minded and, obviously, impassioned in discussion ... as are many of you, i'd wager).

Shel, you had some questions I’d be happy to try and answer.

I’ve never met Jundo in person. No. But I have met my teacher Taigu in person. Indeed, I was ordained by him at the end of a Sesshin held in Kortenborg, Belgium, in 2011. This ordination came after two years of preparation, including weekly, hour-long meetings on Skype. I think we must be talking of about 100 hours or more of face-to-face, student-teacher interaction in advance of ordination.

You also asked about Unsui training at Treeleaf. Well, much like elsewhere it involves study and practice. Study of the sutras. Practice of the forms. Immersion in the history of the Soto tradition. Also, work practice, engaged practice, and the like forms part of the training. All in all, it is a daily commitment ... not a fly-by-night affair.

My weekly hour of Dokusan continues with my teacher. Having received Jukai in the SFZC lineage, I decided that Dokusan twice a year with Paul Haller just wasn’t enough. I realised I’d have much more interaction with a teacher at Treeleaf. So, I sought out Taigu, with whom I identified. Indeed, some of the training (particularly in forms) happened in Belgium ... and will continue, both online and at our next retreat.

I know Jundo’s priests-in-training also have spent time practicing with him in Japan, as well as their interaction online. This is certainly true of Mongen, who did some training in a Japanese monetary with Jundo for a week or two a year or two ago.
So, although much of our interaction occurs online, it is complemented in other meetings. It’s really not that radical ... quite like any other Zen Sangha in North America or Europe, really.

Thanks for your questions Shel. Who do you practise with, and where? I’d be curious to learn of your own practise.

Gassho
Myozan

shel
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Re: Treeleaf Sangha

Postby shel » Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:11 pm


shel
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Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:38 pm

Re: Treeleaf Sangha

Postby shel » Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:31 pm


shel
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Re: Treeleaf Sangha

Postby shel » Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:40 pm


Simon E.
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Re: Treeleaf Sangha

Postby Simon E. » Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:24 pm

" My heart's in the Highlands
my heart is not here.
My heart's in the Highlands
chasing the deer."

Robert V.C. Burns.

shel
Posts: 1500
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:38 pm

Re: Treeleaf Sangha

Postby shel » Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:42 pm



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