Buddhahood in Chan

User avatar
Indrajala
Posts: 6312
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:19 pm
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Buddhahood in Chan

Postby Indrajala » Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:43 pm

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
Posts: 6615
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: Buddhahood in Chan

Postby Astus » Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:16 am

It is all right to not accept that Chan teaches the sudden gateway to buddhahood. Just as Huseng quoted, Zongmi is one of the few outstanding teachers who did not accept that view. But a large number of teachers did accept.

The fourth principle of Chan is "see nature, become buddha" (jianxing chengfo / kensho jobutsu 見性成佛). As it's said in the Platform Sutra, "If you recognize your own mind and see the nature, you will definitely accomplish the enlightenment of buddhahood." (T48n2008, p351a, 12)

To make it clear how it was understood in the Hongzhou school:

"The deluded man seeks to obtain or attain something, while the enlightened man neither seeks, obtains nor attains anything whatsoever. The deluded man yearns for attainment in some distant kalpa in the future, while the enlightened man perceives the nature of all things suddenly and instantaneously."
(Huihai's "Tsung-Ching Record" tr. by Lok To, X63n1224, p26c, 5-6)

"Some students attain the state of liberated Mind quickly, some slowly. After listening to a Dharma talk, some reach "no mind" directly. In contrast, some must first pass gradually through the ten grades of Bodhisattva faith, the Dasabhumi of Bodhisattva development, and the ten stages before attaining the Perfectly Awakened Mind. Whether one takes a long or a short time, however, once attained, "no mind" can never be lost. With nothing further to cultivate and nothing more to attain, one realizes that this "no mind" is true, not false, Mind. Whether reaching this stage quickly or after passing through the various stages of Bodhisattva development gradually, the attainment of "no mind" cannot be characterized in terms of shallow or deep."
(Huangbo's "Chung-Ling Record" tr. by Lok To, T48n2012A, p380b, 5-9)
Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.



User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 24173
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Buddhahood in Chan

Postby Malcolm » Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:26 am





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
Posts: 6615
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: Buddhahood in Chan

Postby Astus » Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:33 am

Awakening in Chan means realising the nature of mind, i.e. the buddha-mind. Since the buddha-mind is perfect in qualities and omniscience, how could that awakening be limited? It is free from the emotional (klesa) and conceptual (jneya) obscurations, how could it be bound by anything at all? Teachers of Chan were well aware of the gradual stages and aeons of bodhisattva practice when they talked about buddhahood and claimed that Chan is a sudden path. Those who viewed it in a different way did say so.
Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.



User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 24173
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Buddhahood in Chan

Postby Malcolm » Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:30 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

User avatar
mindyourmind
Posts: 497
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:11 am
Location: South Africa

Re: Buddhahood in Chan

Postby mindyourmind » Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:46 pm

What possible purpose can a discussion like this have?
Dualism is the real root of our suffering and all of our conflicts.

Namkhai Norbu

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 24173
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Buddhahood in Chan

Postby Malcolm » Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:48 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

User avatar
mindyourmind
Posts: 497
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:11 am
Location: South Africa

Re: Buddhahood in Chan

Postby mindyourmind » Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:54 pm

Dualism is the real root of our suffering and all of our conflicts.

Namkhai Norbu

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 24173
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Buddhahood in Chan

Postby Malcolm » Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:26 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

User avatar
mindyourmind
Posts: 497
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:11 am
Location: South Africa

Re: Buddhahood in Chan

Postby mindyourmind » Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:14 pm

Dualism is the real root of our suffering and all of our conflicts.

Namkhai Norbu

User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
Posts: 6615
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: Buddhahood in Chan

Postby Astus » Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:37 pm

Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.



User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 24173
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Buddhahood in Chan

Postby Malcolm » Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:19 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 24173
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Buddhahood in Chan

Postby Malcolm » Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:21 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
Posts: 6615
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: Buddhahood in Chan

Postby Astus » Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:36 pm

Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.



Kyosan
Posts: 331
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:57 pm
Location: USA, Tucson

Re: Buddhahood in Chan

Postby Kyosan » Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:55 pm

We can have some idea of what Buddhahood is and there is nothing wrong with that, but we should realize our limitations and not think that we know what Buddhahood is. Of course we don't, only Buddhas know what Buddhahood is. We are just deluded sentient beings.
:namaste:

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 24173
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Buddhahood in Chan

Postby Malcolm » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:10 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

Kyosan
Posts: 331
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:57 pm
Location: USA, Tucson

Re: Buddhahood in Chan

Postby Kyosan » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:21 pm

Last edited by Kyosan on Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
Posts: 6615
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: Buddhahood in Chan

Postby Astus » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:35 pm

Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.



Kyosan
Posts: 331
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:57 pm
Location: USA, Tucson

Re: Buddhahood in Chan

Postby Kyosan » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:50 pm


User avatar
LastLegend
Posts: 2857
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:46 pm
Location: Washington DC

Re: Buddhahood in Chan

Postby LastLegend » Thu Aug 25, 2011 3:31 am

Don't talk practice. When we have realized enlightenment we can come back and talk about all the paths not just the path we have employed.

:namaste:
NAMO AMITABHA
NAM MO A DI DA PHAT (VIETNAMESE)
NAMO AMITUOFO (CHINESE)

Bodhidharma [my translation]
―I come to the East to transmit this clear knowing mind without constructing any dharma―


Return to “Zen”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests