Chöd as Sutra & Tantra combined

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Palzang Jangchub
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Chöd as Sutra & Tantra combined

Post by Palzang Jangchub »

Chöd is said to be a combination of Sutra and Tantra. At its root it's based on the view of Prajnaparamita, yet its practice is done through tantric methods (visualizing oneself as the deity and offering the body as ganachakra, etc).

I meant to ask this question of Lamchen Gyalpo Rinpoche when I had the chance, but the opportunity came and went, so I'll ask it here. Are any of the various Chöd practices associated with a certain class of tantra (i.e. kriya, charya, yoga, annuttarayoga) or a specific tantric cycle/system (i.e. Guhyasamaja, Chakrasamvara, Vajrabhairava, Hevajra, etc.)? Does the practice of Chöd in general have certain tantric associations?
Image

"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྩ་བའི་བླ་མ་སྐྱབས་རྗེ་མགར་ཆེན་ཁྲི་སྤྲུལ་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་ཁྱེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ།།
རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་མཁས་གྲུབ་ཀརྨ་ཆགས་མེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ། ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོཿ
Malcolm
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Re: Chöd as Sutra & Tantra combined

Post by Malcolm »

Karma Jinpa wrote:Chöd is said to be a combination of Sutra and Tantra. At its root it's based on the view of Prajnaparamita, yet its practice is done through tantric methods (visualizing oneself as the deity and offering the body as ganachakra, etc).

I meant to ask this question of Lamchen Gyalpo Rinpoche when I had the chance, but the opportunity came and went, so I'll ask it here. Are any of the various Chöd practices associated with a certain class of tantra (i.e. kriya, charya, yoga, annuttarayoga) or a specific tantric cycle/system (i.e. Guhyasamaja, Chakrasamvara, Vajrabhairava, Hevajra, etc.)? Does the practice of Chöd in general have certain tantric associations?
It is more associate with mother tantra.
DiamondSutra
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Re: Chöd as Sutra & Tantra combined

Post by DiamondSutra »

VY
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Palzang Jangchub
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Re: Chöd as Sutra & Tantra combined

Post by Palzang Jangchub »

DiamondSutra wrote:VY
??? Care to explain? Would that happen to be an abbreviation of Vajrayogini?

Come to think of it, since most Chöd practices that I know of involve self-visualization as Vajravarahi (or her even more wrathful form, Troma Nakmo), would it be safe to say that there's an association with the Chakrasamvara Tantra? Or that perhaps this has become an association over time as the Chödyul became assimilated by the various other schools?

This would hold up with Malcolm's statement that it's more associated with Mother tantra, as Chakrasamvara falls into that category.

I am admittedly limited to my Ka-Nying experience, and would be just as interested to hear from someone outside that scope as I am to hear from someone within it.
Image

"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྩ་བའི་བླ་མ་སྐྱབས་རྗེ་མགར་ཆེན་ཁྲི་སྤྲུལ་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་ཁྱེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ།།
རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་མཁས་གྲུབ་ཀརྨ་ཆགས་མེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ། ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོཿ
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conebeckham
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Re: Chöd as Sutra & Tantra combined

Post by conebeckham »

MaChig Lab Kyi Dron Ma's tradition was based on Prajnaparamita, as you've probably read.
However, she also held a wide variety of HYT empowerments and these were traditionally part of her lineage transmission, back in the day....Mahamaya, Chakrasamvara, etc.

You could say that Vajrayogini is the quintessential practice of Mother Tantra, which would include the Samvara practices. It is also said that Vajrayogini, in whatever form, represents wisdom, in the Wisdom/Method scheme of Yogini/Samvara. Vajrayogini is essentially the same as the Perfect Wisdom, PrajnaParamita, and is a HYT embodiement of that Wisdom.

So, Prajnaparamita could be seen as a representation tending toward Sutra, while VY is a Tantric representation. But the "daily Chod" practice, or Lujin, as well as the extensive drupchos of Rinchen Trengwa and Tsoklay, are without doubt Tantric methods.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
Vajraprajnakhadga
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Re: Chöd as Sutra & Tantra combined

Post by Vajraprajnakhadga »

Prajnaparamita is also associated closely with Dzogchen. Prajnaparamita is not limited to any particular yana.

As far as Chod goes, nothing about it is particularly sutric.
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