Defining sexual misconduct

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lotwell
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Defining sexual misconduct

Postby lotwell » Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:28 am

If sexual misconduct is defined as sexual activity that leads to harm/suffering, then is there anything that can be considered proper sexual conduct?

If certain chemicals which are released during physical intimacy create emotional attachment to the other party and, due impermanence , the other the party will either die, leave, change etc. it naturally follows that we suffer.

Can there be any sexual activity without subtle traces of harm?

Lotwell

xtracorrupt
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Re: Defining sexual misconduct

Postby xtracorrupt » Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:09 pm

Existence can be normal.
Ex:a Apple tree is a apple tree
Ex:Michael is Michael, Michael is who Michael is


Existence can be conditioned.
Ex: Apple tree is apple tree if apple tree grows
Ex: Michael is Michael if Michael is a king
Ex: Michael is Michael if Michael is walking
Ex: Michael is Michael if Michael is not walking

Existence can be unconditioned
Ex: Apple is apple tree once apple tree is grown for 50 weeks
Ex: Michael is Michael once Michael is a king
Ex: Michael is content Michael once Michael is walking
Ex: Michael is discontent Michael once Michael is walking.

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KathyLauren
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Re: Defining sexual misconduct

Postby KathyLauren » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:54 pm

It is true that all sexual activity is samsaric. But even in the field of samsara, some actions can be right and some wrong.

Any action motivated by an intention to cause harm is wrong. Any action that can be reasonably expected to cause harm is at best unskillful, and is probably wrong. Any action that is motivated by a wish to reduce harm and cause happiness is good. Even if it is samsaric and therefore doesn't totally succeed.

Om mani padme hum
Keith

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Seishin
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Re: Defining sexual misconduct

Postby Seishin » Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:21 pm

I agree with Keith.
Something to also ponder about is self gratification. Whilst this is not "misconduct" it could lead us to cling to our ego that little bit more :tongue:

Gassho,
Seishin

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Lhug-Pa
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Re: Defining sexual misconduct

Postby Lhug-Pa » Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:31 pm

Many people have aversion to or avoid this topic because it's such a 'touchy' topic; however it's unavoidable now that the knowledge is out there, and taught about openly by H.H. the Dalai Lama no less:



Many also try to marginalize Karmamudra as an unimportant practice, but it actually contains the very essence of sexuality, especially within the context of the Buddha Dharma. So if one receives instructions on Karmamudra and applies it correctly, there won't be any issues about what is sexual misconduct and what isn't.

And for monks and nuns who are not allowed to practice Karmamudra—and for bachelorettes & bachelors in general—there are always practices such as Trul Khor or 'Khrul 'Khor (Yantra Yoga), Tsa-Lung, Tummo, Pranayama, etc. in order to work with ones Sexual Energy (Thigle, Dhatu, Bindu, Prana, Srog, Lung, Nadis, Tsa, Chakras, various Glands & Hormones etc.). In this way it is said that one can much more easily keep one's monastic, Mahayana, and/or Tantric commitments without repression, as one is directly working with the Sexual Energy and sublimating It.

xtracorrupt
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Re: Defining sexual misconduct

Postby xtracorrupt » Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:52 am

Existence can be normal.
Ex:a Apple tree is a apple tree
Ex:Michael is Michael, Michael is who Michael is


Existence can be conditioned.
Ex: Apple tree is apple tree if apple tree grows
Ex: Michael is Michael if Michael is a king
Ex: Michael is Michael if Michael is walking
Ex: Michael is Michael if Michael is not walking

Existence can be unconditioned
Ex: Apple is apple tree once apple tree is grown for 50 weeks
Ex: Michael is Michael once Michael is a king
Ex: Michael is content Michael once Michael is walking
Ex: Michael is discontent Michael once Michael is walking.

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Grigoris
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Re: Defining sexual misconduct

Postby Grigoris » Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:41 am

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Grigoris
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Re: Defining sexual misconduct

Postby Grigoris » Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:50 am

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

Zealot
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Re: Defining sexual misconduct

Postby Zealot » Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:37 pm

You forgot protected people, Greg! Meaning don't go after a horny daughter with a disagreeable father (or mother, or anyone else protecting them). Well, I guess the quote covered it, but you only said "(1) Betrothed or engaged to be married." /end nit picking :offtopic:

And Keith, motivation is but one part of an action. There are three that affect karma as far as I know: Intention, Action or Concentration, and Wisdom or Blessing. In order for the karma to be completely pure, you must have pure intention, the action itself must be pure, and afterwords you must wish that your pure action benefit all beings. If all three areas are not pure, then there can be negative karma produced or the positive karma generated would be less. At least this is my understanding.

Also, I wouldn't say just because someone wants to have sex with you and would be sad if you didn't, you should. There are many more things to consider. Perhaps the person is addicted to sex and is only interested in the intoxication there-of. Perhaps they have an older brother who wishes to protect them. Perhaps they have an STD and are willing to spread it and never inform you. More or less, I believe intent on both sides must be pure in order for there to be no sexual misconduct.

Hope that helped!

:namaste:
"My life for Aiur!" - Protoss Zealot

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seeker242
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Re: Defining sexual misconduct

Postby seeker242 » Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:50 pm

One should not kill any living being, nor cause it to be killed, nor should one incite any other to kill. Do never injure any being, whether strong or weak, in this entire universe!

Zealot
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Re: Defining sexual misconduct

Postby Zealot » Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:59 pm

"My life for Aiur!" - Protoss Zealot

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Grigoris
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Re: Defining sexual misconduct

Postby Grigoris » Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:09 pm

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

Zealot
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Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:38 pm

Re: Defining sexual misconduct

Postby Zealot » Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:38 pm

"My life for Aiur!" - Protoss Zealot

nilakantha
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Re: Defining sexual misconduct

Postby nilakantha » Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:11 pm

I find the clearest explanation of sexual misconduct to be from Geshe Jampa Gyatso’s book Everlasting Rain of Nectar:

Sexual misconduct. Sexual misconduct occurs in relation to four types of basis: an unsuitable person, an unsuitable bodily part, an unsuitable time, and an unsuitable place. An unsuitable person is someone else’s partner, a close relation, a minor, or someone with a vow of chastity. An unsuitable bodily part is, for example, the mouth or anus. An unsuitable time is daytime, during pregnancy, or when one of the partners has taken the eight Mahāyāna precepts, since these include refraining from all sexual activity for twenty-four hours. An unsuitable place is in front of our guru, parents, or images of the buddhas, near a stupa, or in a temple. The correct recognition of our partner is not necessary to complete the path of action of sexual misconduct. The affliction accompanying sexual misconduct is generally attachment but can be hatred (e.g., rape) or ignorance (e.g., thinking that sexual intercourse is a way to gain spiritual realizations). The motivation is the wish to engage in sexual activity. The execution is sexual activity with an unsuitable person, with an unsuitable bodily part, at an unsuitable time, or in an unsuitable place. The completion is experiencing the pleasure of orgasm.

I also wonder why we are so obsessed with sex if we’re really interested in practice. I tend to side with the Ven. Ajahn Chah:

Ven. Ajahn Chah, the teacher under whom we both trained for many years, similarly taught that sexual practises had to be given up if one aspired for Enlightenment. For example, I remember a Westerner coming to see Ajahn Chah once and saying that he was sexually active but without being attached to the sex. Ajahn Chah completely ridiculed the statement as an impossibility, saying something like "Bah! that’s like saying there can be salt which isn't salty!" Ajahn Chah taught all who came to him, monastic and lay, that sexual desire is KILESA (defilement of the mind), it is a hindrance to success in meditation and an obstruction to Enlightenment. He taught that sexual activity should be abandoned if one wants to end suffering. He would never speak in praise of sex. He would only speak in praise of letting go.

Buddhist Sexual Ethics - A Rejoinder

by Ajahn Brahmavamso
and
Ajahn Nanadhammo
May I be a poet in birth after birth, a devotee of the feet of Lord Avalokiteśvara,
with elevated heart, spontaneously directed towards his Refuge,
wholly occupied with the solemn duty of saving others.

--Lokeshvarashatakam of Vajradatta

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Lhug-Pa
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Re: Defining sexual misconduct

Postby Lhug-Pa » Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:14 pm


greentara
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Re: Defining sexual misconduct

Postby greentara » Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:13 am

There has been a lot of controversy about the Catholic Church recently. This is a snippet of a letter to a local newspaper. "As young Catholic, with qualifications in criminology, I am disturbed when I hear that removing the vow of celibacy for priests will somehow fix the issue of men abusing children.
In offering this 'quick fix' Joseph Wakkim and others ignore evidence-based research which has consistantly shown that married men with children are the most common abusers of children"

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Lhug-Pa
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Re: Defining sexual misconduct

Postby Lhug-Pa » Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:57 am

http://sacred-sex.org/scriptures/buddhi ... d-sex.html

Or as was written in my previous post, one could look up Berzinarchives as well; or at least see what Tibetan Medicine says about sexual activity....

greentara
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Re: Defining sexual misconduct

Postby greentara » Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:15 am

Lhug Pa, I agree and of f course there are a few rare people who are ripe and can practice Tantra in Buddhism and Hinduism. This is a difficult path, practioners balancing on the razors edge.

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Lhug-Pa
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Re: Defining sexual misconduct

Postby Lhug-Pa » Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:41 am

True indeed, Greentara.

The only problem with advocating celibacy in these times and contemporary circumstances, is that there usually isn't an alternative to repression offered; which is why I'd posted:


"And for monks and nuns who are not allowed to practice Karmamudra—and for bachelorettes & bachelors in general—there are always practices such as Trul Khor or 'Khrul 'Khor (Yantra Yoga), Tsa-Lung, Tummo, Pranayama, etc. in order to work with ones Sexual Energy (Thigle, Dhatu, Bindu, Prana, Srog, Lung, Nadis, Tsa, Chakras, various Glands & Hormones etc.). In this way it is said that one can much more easily keep one's monastic, Mahayana, and/or Tantric commitments without repression, as one is directly working with the Sexual Energy and sublimating It."


I think one of the main problems that confronts monks and nuns nowadays, is that celibacy is only realistic for people who can retreat to the forests to meditate, that is unless one has access to a powerful method such as Yantra Yoga or Tsa-Lung.

Without a said powerful Vajrayana type of method, celibacy would be nearly impossible considering all the lustful images, talk, etc. going on all around us, not to mention all the pollution and various forms of radiation which negatively effect our Nadis or inner channels.

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Konchog1
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Re: Defining sexual misconduct

Postby Konchog1 » Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:40 am

Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats


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