Thoughts

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
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Jesse
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Thoughts

Postby Jesse » Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:01 am

I was pondering how immaterial things are reborn, for example thoughts. What exactly causes a thought to arise in the first place? After a thought ceases, in what ways are the preceding thoughts the same, how are they not the same?
“Freedom is secured not by the fulfilling of one's desires, but by the removal of desire” – Epictetus

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futerko
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Re: Thoughts

Postby futerko » Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:08 am

They aren't born, they come from nowhere and go nowhere, they are just part of the flow of the stream.

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Re: Thoughts

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:10 am

I dunno ,if dependent origination is a description of reality, then nothing comes from nothing, and that's why nothing is born or dies, because there is no ceasing to exist or coming into existence in reality, it only seems so due to obscured vision.

So, i'd opt for the idea that thoughts arise from previous thoughts, or maybe conditions created by thoughts, which in turn produce new conditions for thoughts arising upon consciousness that sees and forms views oN those thoughts etc..we cannot see all these causal connections clearly in meditation at our level (well, maybe you guys can, I can't!), but I think you can least intuit and infer some of it if you watch closely.

Thoughts being same or different, is again hard to answer since same and different are notions that only exist in a relative sense, Lankavatara says that things are only eternal in their non-eternality, I guess that would mean that technically thoughts are all different from one another? :shrug: :shrug:
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Karma Dondrup Tashi
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Re: Thoughts

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:14 pm


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Jesse
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Re: Thoughts

Postby Jesse » Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:10 am

“Freedom is secured not by the fulfilling of one's desires, but by the removal of desire” – Epictetus

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Re: Thoughts

Postby muni » Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:51 am

Right perception, okay.

Independent solid me is born on a grasped thought. Hello here I am and how are you? Oops now you are born too! Come on, go away!

Caught in the stream of thoughts, or:

“It is completely natural that thoughts keep on arising. The point is not to try to stop them, but to liberate them. This is done by remaining in a state of simplicity, which lets thoughts arise and vanish again without stringing onto them any further thoughts. When you no longer perpetuate the movement of thoughts, they dissolve by themselves without leaving any trace. When you no longer spoil the state of stillness with mental fabrications, you can maintain the natural serenity of mind without any effort. Sometimes, let your thoughts flow and watch the unchanging nature behind them.” Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche

We certainly can use pointing guidance/practice!

:anjali:

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Re: Thoughts

Postby muni » Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:04 pm

Also, with devotion there is openess to recieve the blessings by wise compassionate nature/Master for our practice. This I think is very important or we merely remain struggling with technical ideas about, or are attached to the idea to detach from thoughts.

Without guiding practice we fall back into our habitual thought hopping, like a roll of paper we stretch out, directly rolls back in its old condition.

Of course I can first analyse. :smile:

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Karma Dondrup Tashi
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Re: Thoughts

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:03 pm


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oushi
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Re: Thoughts

Postby oushi » Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:34 pm

Say what you think about me

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Re: Thoughts

Postby ground » Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:41 pm


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Re: Thoughts

Postby dude » Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:46 pm

"I dunno ,if dependent origination is a description of reality, then nothing comes from nothing, and that's why nothing is born or dies, because there is no ceasing to exist or coming into existence in reality, it only seems so due to obscured vision."



I very much concur. Thoughts are dependent on previous thoughts. Thoughts are born and die, but they don't come from nowhere and they don't go to nowhere. A thought is a unit of information. You may have a "thought" such as a phone number or street address, and later forget it. The "thought" for all intents and purposes does not exist, because you can't use it, but it may reappear later.
Thoughts arise from the mind, which arises from the existence of a living being, which arises from cause.

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Jesse
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Re: Thoughts

Postby Jesse » Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:04 pm

“Freedom is secured not by the fulfilling of one's desires, but by the removal of desire” – Epictetus


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