Loosing my way on the path.

Whether you're exploring Buddhism for the first time or you're already on the path, feel free to ask questions of any kind here.

Loosing my way on the path.

Postby DeepFriedFunk » Sun Sep 29, 2013 2:21 pm

Hey folks,

Well... It's probably best I start on a positive note. This past couple of years I have turned my life around. Due to alcoholism this time last year I'd nearly lost all of my friends, alienated my family and I was slowly killing myself, if the bottle didn't kill me then I eventually would. I'd already been in hospital a number of times for botched suicide attempts. (sorry I talk so nonchalantly about it - it really isn't a big deal to me anymore.) Anyway, next month I will be 12 months sober and 4 months before that binge.

I've gone from being on sickness benefits (because my mental state wasn't fantastic whilst climbing out the hole that is the bottle) to finding full time work. I am now training for my professional SCUBA certificates so I can move out of England in a year or so to teach. So this is pretty much a 180 degree turn from where I've come from.

Really, I have the Dharma to thank for all of this. AA never worked with me and the NHS was useless. With no where to turn I turned up at my local Buddhist centre begging for help to give me some sort of peace of mind and self control. The community at Jamyang Leeds gave me my life back. I put in the work but they guided and supported me, I really don't know how I could ever repay them apart from staying sober.

Now at the moment with a full time job and training for my diving as much as possible I have no time for practice. This is both with my local Buddhist community and in private. I get next to no sleep so i never have time for prayers, meditation and putting out the water bowls on my altar. Now I thought this was fine at first as long as I took the things I had learned into my everyday life, which don't get me wrong, I do as much as possible. But now, without the time I had when I was unemployed, things are really starting to slip in terms of my behaviour and outlook on life. I am becoming much more selfish again and much less proactive in spotting when I should have adjusted my behaviour in a given situation.

I apologise about the language but to be honest I think I'm acting like a bit of an arse hole at the moment. I know better than this. I feel like I'm letting myself down and I'm letting down my local Buddhist centre and all of the good friends I've made down there. I enjoy prayers but really being a Buddhist boils down to (for me anyway) my behaviour and actions in everyday life, not on the meditation cushion. I can handle missing some of my meditation out (obv I'm not saying it isn't important) but when my day to day behaviour changes for the worse then it's time I do something about it.

I suppose I'm worried if I go back to the old me I'll be straight back on the bottle. Buddhism gave me skills to manage all of the anxieties, difficult thoughts and guilt associated with my drinking. I just have no time or energy at the moment to find that drive to sit down and actually partake in the practice that is really the bedrock that enables me to apply the things I've learned to my everyday life.

Thanks guys!
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Re: Loosing my way on the path.

Postby Derek » Sun Sep 29, 2013 2:31 pm

I recommend Daniel Ingram's article on how he practiced while working 14-hour shifts:

https://daniel-ingram-c4x6.squarespace. ... -actualism
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Re: Loosing my way on the path.

Postby LionelTeo » Sun Sep 29, 2013 3:01 pm

Hey Deep Fried,

Great to hear your story and your success of coming from a tough life.

Acknowledging, Knowing that you would not want to lose it and going back to your self that your losing your way is a great start.

Here are some questions for you.

How did you get home and to work? Is it by Car or Public Transport?
When you are going home and to work, where are your ears or eyes, what are they doing, are they free?
While bathing, having meals and eating at home/work, where are your ears or eyes, are they free?
While your working, having a break, training, where are your eyes or ears, are they free?
While your interacting with people, your colleagues, your boss, your friends, your family, where are your compassion, are they free?

Those are time.

When we say, make the best use of time, is to make the best use of your organs at the moment of time when required. How about spending time to listen an audio on dharma when your ears are free, reading a book on heart warming stories when your eyes are free? Is it really hard not to find time for them? Time is not something that is given to you everyday but something that you have to find and make the best use of it.

What about compassion, is it hard not to show compassion and kindness to your colleagues every morning, simple words like a yes sir and no sir is different from yes and no, it conveys respect. What about good morning, thank you and have a nice day, do you have it spend time to show compassion and kindness in greetings and words? Note that showing compassion and kindness are the basis to walking the eight foot path hold, if you can walk on the path itself spreading kindness, compassion and making other someone else day happy, wouldn't it be more important than having meditation. Meditation is simply part of the process to achieve walking the path itself, then why not walk the path since time present the opportunity to you every morning to walk it, be it in front of your boss, colleagues, and friends, is it hard not to spend the opportunity to make their day and them happy?

Here are some audio links and books I used and read
http://www.tsemrinpoche.com/audio-teachings
http://www.amazon.com/Something-You-For ... gy_b_img_z

I wish that you may find the time and be rewarded with happiness :smile:
We are born with compassion, it is just that we had lost it.
Understand no matter what happens, you already had shelter and food, these are enough for you to find happiness.
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Re: Loosing my way on the path.

Postby disjointed » Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:29 am

Tsem Tulku lol I'm sorry, that name is funny. I'm going to have to get everyone to call me ******** Tulku now. Since I'm a tulku so it must be included in my proper name. lol Just call me His Eminence Tulku Lama Rinpoche Disjointed. I'm going to get it on my driver's license; they'll have to use both sides to print my name.

Deepfried, before making an effort, your bad tendencies, views, disturbing emotions and karma dictated your actions, without guilt they ruined your life like it had no value, made you a mockery, and rubbed your face in it.
Out of complacency, because things are pleasant now, you have forgotten what they did to you. Revive that grudge. And when you become negligent and they cause you grief, use no self control in taking out your frustrations on them.
If there is a radical inconsistency between your statements and the position you claim to hold,
you are a sock puppet.
Make as many accounts as you want; people can identify your deception with this test.
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Re: Loosing my way on the path.

Postby Matt J » Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:20 am

Maybe it's time to slow down from "as much as possible" to "a reasonable rate that allows for sleep and some practice." Just a thought from an outside observer.

DeepFriedFunk wrote:training for my diving as much as possible I have no time for practice.
The Great Way is not difficult
If only there is no picking or choosing
--- Xin Xin Ming

http://nondualism.org/
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Re: Loosing my way on the path.

Postby Fa Dao » Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:41 am

your day to day life IS your path..doesnt matter if you are working 1 hour or 15..throughout all of that time you can relax your mind and body and just be aware..be Present in whatever you find yourself doing. When you have time, do meditation, do prayers etc...apply the awareness you have developed on the cushion to everything in your life..eating, talking, sleeping, working, shitting..doesnt matter...thats real practice..dont be too hard on yourself
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche
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Re: Loosing my way on the path.

Postby muni » Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:26 am

You are not alone. Our mind is so easy lost in its woods, I am actually expert. Here Pema Chodron gives some good guidance. I hear her talking about a kind of inner space-inner solitude while the daily movements go on. Also what is already been said here she as well shows why we shouldn't be too hard for ourselves.
Few minutes meditation for all, or if possible go to ask advice by the Compassionate Teacher.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BH2T-7f5 ... =endscreen

I like your avatar. :smile:
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Re: Loosing my way on the path.

Postby invisiblediamond » Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:01 pm

DeepFriedFunk wrote:Hey folks,

Well... It's probably best I start on a positive note. This past couple of years I have turned my life around. Due to alcoholism this time last year I'd nearly lost all of my friends, alienated my family and I was slowly killing myself, if the bottle didn't kill me then I eventually would. I'd already been in hospital a number of times for botched suicide attempts. (sorry I talk so nonchalantly about it - it really isn't a big deal to me anymore.) Anyway, next month I will be 12 months sober and 4 months before that binge.

I've gone from being on sickness benefits (because my mental state wasn't fantastic whilst climbing out the hole that is the bottle) to finding full time work. I am now training for my professional SCUBA certificates so I can move out of England in a year or so to teach. So this is pretty much a 180 degree turn from where I've come from.

Really, I have the Dharma to thank for all of this. AA never worked with me and the NHS was useless. With no where to turn I turned up at my local Buddhist centre begging for help to give me some sort of peace of mind and self control. The community at Jamyang Leeds gave me my life back. I put in the work but they guided and supported me, I really don't know how I could ever repay them apart from staying sober.

Now at the moment with a full time job and training for my diving as much as possible I have no time for practice. This is both with my local Buddhist community and in private. I get next to no sleep so i never have time for prayers, meditation and putting out the water bowls on my altar. Now I thought this was fine at first as long as I took the things I had learned into my everyday life, which don't get me wrong, I do as much as possible. But now, without the time I had when I was unemployed, things are really starting to slip in terms of my behaviour and outlook on life. I am becoming much more selfish again and much less proactive in spotting when I should have adjusted my behaviour in a given situation.

I apologise about the language but to be honest I think I'm acting like a bit of an arse hole at the moment. I know better than this. I feel like I'm letting myself down and I'm letting down my local Buddhist centre and all of the good friends I've made down there. I enjoy prayers but really being a Buddhist boils down to (for me anyway) my behaviour and actions in everyday life, not on the meditation cushion. I can handle missing some of my meditation out (obv I'm not saying it isn't important) but when my day to day behaviour changes for the worse then it's time I do something about it.

I suppose I'm worried if I go back to the old me I'll be straight back on the bottle. Buddhism gave me skills to manage all of the anxieties, difficult thoughts and guilt associated with my drinking. I just have no time or energy at the moment to find that drive to sit down and actually partake in the practice that is really the bedrock that enables me to apply the things I've learned to my everyday life.

Thanks guys!


Get introduction via webcast from ChNN, very streamlined practice.
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Re: Loosing my way on the path.

Postby undefineable » Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:28 pm

disjointed wrote:Deepfried, before making an effort, your bad tendencies, views, disturbing emotions and karma dictated your actions, without guilt they ruined your life like it had no value, made you a mockery, and rubbed your face in it.
Out of complacency, because things are pleasant now, you have forgotten what they did to you. Revive that grudge. And when you become negligent and they cause you grief, use no self control in taking out your frustrations on them.
This all sounds nice and simple, but the truth is that you can't fight fire with fire.

Speaking from experience, it works like this: First of all, you feel discomfort at some level of your relationship with the outside world; the mind then registers and rationalises this in a way that triggers self-aversion, which by its very nature can at this point only trigger more of its own potential causes - alcoholism in the case of this topic. In this way, self-aversion builds to a pitch and duration that can only destroy you both psychologically and physically; you then feel yet more aversion towards yourself for allowing it to happen, as well as towards the discomfort and the very self-aversion that caused it all to begin with :rolleye: :evil: . It's a vicious spiral that's hard to break out of as long as you have your own memories, although it seems to me that the more your mind ties itself up in these knots, the easier it is to free yourself, since the 'knotting' becomes so excessive that its absurdity is unmasked, and since the last knots start to unravel by themselves in any case. {Despite its destructiveness in this kind of situation, this 'knotting' is the only genuinely :rolling: thing I've seen ego do _ } On the other hand, the rewards for breaking free become that much less obvious (in this life atleast) as time passes, so the sooner the better _ _

Better and simpler -albeit nonetheless harder atfirst- to just try and discover what deep-seated tendencies might have given rise to the traits that first triggered your self-aversion, staying in a frame of mind that's both positive and unattached. As to how this can be achieved, hopefully people here can see reasons why dharma practice is a good bet. :buddha1:
"Removing the barrier between this and that is the only solution" {Chogyam Trungpa - "The Lion's Roar"}
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Re: Loosing my way on the path.

Postby avisitor » Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:43 pm

When two people are dating, even if they are very busy, they find the time to spend together.
In other words, they make the time by setting their priorities.
So it is with anything you do in life.
You make the time to do what is important to you.
Set your priorities. Do what is right.

An important part of Buddhism is the sangha.
The people you spend time together to meditate.
They are the ones who give you your push to follow the rules and do the right thing.
Sit for the full time instead of giving up early.
They support your attitude for the better.

Buddha said to be in the world not of it.
Sorry but you know the only person that can really help you ... is you.
You've got to make the decision. Then follow up.

Good luck.
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Re: Loosing my way on the path.

Postby duckfiasco » Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:56 am

Even our practice rises and falls like other conditioned things.
It can be painful when we feel like we need to do things a certain way to get by, and then it doesn't work out.

I've had big gaps in practice, including some periods where I found Buddhism nihilistic, pessimistic, and other issues I was having.

What I've found is during those times, there have been little sprouts of the Dharma in places I didn't expect.
I think you've probably noticed the same thing, despite lack of formal practice.

It's been a really valuable lesson in the dualism between practice and not practice.
It's one thing to read about how practice isn't just meditating or studying or chanting.
It's another to see how, despite great feelings of inadequacy and "this isn't real practice" and "this isn't good enough to help me", the dharma still works on us gently and persistently.
Our habits of suffering and inadequacy are tenacious, and can make practice that is actually doing important work seem pointless or "not quite right" to our critical eyes.

So try not to worry too much, but make an honest effort to do your best. You can probably tell when you aren't ;)
Namu Amida Butsu
The Perfect Way knows no difficulties
Except that it refuses to make preferences;
Only when freed from hate and love,
It reveals itself fully and without disguise.
- Sengcan (tr. Suzuki)
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Re: Loosing my way on the path.

Postby muni » Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:37 pm

invisiblediamond wrote:
Get introduction via webcast from ChNN, very streamlined practice.



Good advice if we keep in mind that not every being is the same.

I add this, since we can recommend what the other doesn't need. Therefore I recommend to read this, it is by the Mahamudra guidance. Well, oops.

"It is possible to cling to any one of the [philosophical schools] by holding
onto your system as the only valid one, not seeing that all these tenets are
mere conceptual imputations, a great network of labels. These assertions
are based on attachment to your own philosophical position; however, the
philosophical position of the mahamudra is beyond this kind of conceptualizing.
When you cling to a position, taking it to be truly established (an enervating,
totally exhausting endeavor), your ability to see the fundamental nature of the
mind becomes obscured. In sum, when you assert or cling to your own
philosophical view, that in itself obscures the true nature of the mind, the very
thing you are trying to realize. The problem is the grasping, this prejudice
towards your own standpoint or understanding". Tsultrim Gyamtso Rinpoche.
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Re: Loosing my way on the path.

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:16 pm

If you are able to take the 5 precepts, you should consider doing so.
I took them from my teacher (lama) after many years of heavy drinking,
and afterwards never felt the urge to drink again.

The title of this thread, Loosing my way on the path actually has a very interesting aspect to it.
The word you may have meant was losing, as in misplacing something
But "loosing" is better, as in loosening, meaning to not be tied up so tightly.
So, taking the path a little looser, perhaps.

Loosening your way on the path,
loosening up,
giving yourself a little flexibility,
allowing for a few imperfections here and there, is not a bad thing.
I also had to stop drinking, and learning "to be one" with my sober self
was an interesting development.
It is like reuniting with an old friend, and putting all your trust in that friend.
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The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.
Original painting by P.Volker /used by permission.
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Re: Loosing my way on the path.

Postby disjointed » Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:08 am

undefineable wrote:
disjointed wrote:Deepfried, before making an effort, your bad tendencies, views, disturbing emotions and karma dictated your actions, without guilt they ruined your life like it had no value, made you a mockery, and rubbed your face in it.
Out of complacency, because things are pleasant now, you have forgotten what they did to you. Revive that grudge. And when you become negligent and they cause you grief, use no self control in taking out your frustrations on them.
This all sounds nice and simple, but the truth is that you can't fight fire with fire.

Speaking from experience, it works like this: First of all, you feel discomfort at some level of your relationship with the outside world; the mind then registers and rationalises this in a way that triggers self-aversion, which by its very nature can at this point only trigger more of its own potential causes - alcoholism in the case of this topic. In this way, self-aversion builds to a pitch and duration that can only destroy you both psychologically and physically; you then feel yet more aversion towards yourself for allowing it to happen, as well as towards the discomfort and the very self-aversion that caused it all to begin with :rolleye: :evil: . It's a vicious spiral that's hard to break out of as long as you have your own memories, although it seems to me that the more your mind ties itself up in these knots, the easier it is to free yourself, since the 'knotting' becomes so excessive that its absurdity is unmasked, and since the last knots start to unravel by themselves in any case. {Despite its destructiveness in this kind of situation, this 'knotting' is the only genuinely :rolling: thing I've seen ego do _ } On the other hand, the rewards for breaking free become that much less obvious (in this life atleast) as time passes, so the sooner the better _ _

Better and simpler -albeit nonetheless harder atfirst- to just try and discover what deep-seated tendencies might have given rise to the traits that first triggered your self-aversion, staying in a frame of mind that's both positive and unattached. As to how this can be achieved, hopefully people here can see reasons why dharma practice is a good bet. :buddha1:


It's true you can't fight fire with fire like this without getting twisted up in self hating neurosis when you have the wrong view that your bad tendencies, views, disturbing emotions and karma are you.

But if you don't have that wrong view, you can hack them off like gangrenous limbs by mentally connecting them to their disastrous results and opposing them with all the cunning and energy you can muster.

Does a child, recognizing their activity of touching a flame is bad and leads to disastrous results, get twisted up in self hatred? Not likely. Because they do not have the wrong view that that activity is them.
And if you find fault in what I wrote still, maybe you should consider finding a new religion because this is a staple of Buddhist teaching,.. and common sense,... called contemplating the advantages and disadvantages.

There is this idea in pop psychology that shame is always negative and nothing good can come from it. If you really feel strongly about this view that conflicts with the Buddha's teaching then you should probably solicit teachings and companionship from the followers of Dr. Phil and Oprah instead of the Buddha.

"self-aversion, which by its very nature can at this point only trigger more of its own potential causes - alcoholism in the case of this topic." LOL Once I ate something another was saving in the fridge, they were very upset, I felt shame, and then I did not do it again. I certainly did not consume more of the food stuffs they were saving, but according to you the shame could only have made me do this more. Doesn't seem like your idea fits reality.
If there is a radical inconsistency between your statements and the position you claim to hold,
you are a sock puppet.
Make as many accounts as you want; people can identify your deception with this test.
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Re: Loosing my way on the path.

Postby undefineable » Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:08 pm

disjointed wrote: It's true you can't fight fire with fire like this without getting twisted up in self hating neurosis when you have the wrong view that your bad tendencies, views, disturbing emotions and karma are you.
Good point; this comes as new insight - Thanks. :thumbsup: . I admit my POV is not backed up by (*daily*) meditation practice. {Even when I learnt to play piano, I took weekends off practicing :jumping: }

I wonder if less emphasis on Self and more on Other, in the sense of a mahayana rather than hinayana approach, would be more helpful in many cases of negative actions/feelings/views - however far one's understanding of anatman may have progressed-? _ Certainly, comprehending enough of shunyata (probably through :reading: more than anything else) to perceive it on a cognitve level, while disregarding less-explored aspects of one's mind and continuing to to treat the rest as a real entity on a felt level (probably through lack of :meditate: ) seems like a cognitive dissonance.
disjointed wrote: But if you don't have that wrong view, you can hack them off like gangrenous limbs by mentally connecting them to their disastrous results and opposing them with all the cunning and energy you can muster.
Well I gave Chogyam Trungpa's "Working with Negativity" on another thread as an example of this harsh approach to negative self-stories, but this appears to be a tantric practice rather than a hina-/maha-yana one. The problem here for an advocation of guilt (it's not clear if you were using the word 'shame' in this "full-on" sense that really approaches self-hatred) is that it's just another negative self-story.
disjointed wrote:There is this idea in pop psychology that shame is always negative and nothing good can come from it. If you really feel strongly about this view that conflicts with the Buddha's teaching then you should probably solicit teachings and companionship from the followers of Dr. Phil and Oprah instead of the Buddha.
Using words like 'shame' is misleading unless it refers to a negative self-story told about a Self whose existence is atleast experienced as fundamentally real. How can you feel ashamed of a quality if you sense that no-one exists to possess it? In this case, it seems clear that
hack[ing] them off like gangrenous limbs
would feel instinctive.

Besides this, if social conditions have changed since the Buddha's time, then so will the 'relative'-level teachings that are applicable to the majority. Can one even appreciate how much harder it has become to 'do the right thing' over the millenia? In the past, you had to go out of your way to commit negative karma, or to avoid maintaining positive karma by carrying out *simple* activities to maintain yourself and your family. Now, something as basic as getting nervous in exams (not my experience I might add) can be enough to destroy both your own life and much of the contribution your otherwise-flourishing life might have made to society and through which you would have been spared the heavy negative karma of being left to consume more than you produce. True, this is a novel angle on karma that may or may not be applicable in a Buddhist context to this day and age, but since many of those who are drawn to the Path consider themselves too far-gone to benefit from many of the advantages you refer to:
this is a staple of Buddhist teaching,.. and common sense,... called contemplating the advantages and disadvantages.
, it's hard to see how guilt over great downfalls (i.e. something more substantial than:
I ate something another was saving in the fridge, they were very upset, I felt shame, and then I did not do it again
can do anything except trigger the generation (as well as the experience of the results) of more and more negative karma by the person feeling it.
disjointed wrote: Doesn't seem like your idea fits reality.
It doesn't seem, in conclusion, like your idea fits the reality of alcoholics or of people with psychological issues in general. As per usual, there may be a lot of semantics in this debate, but it's not clear that you appreciate the weight of the topic. You don't seem the kind of person who'se prone to commiting negative actions without having made a deliberate decision to commit negative actions (i.e. someone who'se prone to addictions, wrong views, and so on), but failing to demonstrate empathy and understanding towards those who are like that risks persuading them to take a course of action that will harm themselves and those around them.

I'm sorry if I'm offending you in my intellectual (rather than personal) attempt to present and debate an alternative POV, in which case I will 'butt out', as I've made my case.
"Removing the barrier between this and that is the only solution" {Chogyam Trungpa - "The Lion's Roar"}
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Re: Loosing my way on the path.

Postby undefineable » Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:22 pm

*Edit of 2'nd part of last post (sorry :emb: )*:


Besides this, social conditions have changed since the Buddha's time, so the 'relative'-level teachings that are applicable to the majority will atleast have changed slightly. Can one even appreciate how much harder it has become to 'do the right thing' over the millenia? In the distant past, you often had to go out of your way to commit negative karma, or to stop maintaining positive karma (which would have been achieved by carrying out *simple* activities to maintain yourself and your family). These days, something as basic as getting nervous in exams (not my experience I might add) can be enough to destroy much of the contribution your otherwise-flourishing life might have made to society as well as to your own mind, the shortfall of which is itself the 'performance' of negative karma. True, this is a novel angle on karma that may or may not be applicable in a Buddhist context to this (or indeed any) day and age, but since many of those who are drawn to the Path consider themselves too far-gone to benefit from many of the advantages you refer to:
this is a staple of Buddhist teaching,.. and common sense,... called contemplating the advantages and disadvantages.
, it's hard to see how guilt over great downfalls (i.e. something more substantial than:
I ate something another was saving in the fridge, they were very upset, I felt shame, and then I did not do it again
) can do anything for the person feeling it beyond triggering the generation (as well as the experience of the results) of yet more negative karma through aversion.
disjointed wrote: Doesn't seem like your idea fits reality.
It doesn't seem, in conclusion, like your idea fits the reality of alcoholics or of people with psychological problems in general. As per usual, there may be a lot of semantics in this debate, but it's not clear that you appreciate the topic. You don't seem the kind of person who'se prone to commiting negative actions without having made a deliberate decision to do so (i.e. the kind of person who'se prone to addictions, wrong views, and so on), but failing to demonstrate empathy or even understanding for that kind of person risks persuading any such readers who are more open to persuasion to take a course of action that will likely lead to their harming themselves and those around them. Guilt and struggle without method against one's own negative actions is typical of other mainstream religions; it's clear to many that Buddhism offers more of such methods than "everything's empty anyway", and clear to many that its way lies beyond the emotions and complications of struggle.

I'm sorry if I'm offending you in my intellectual (rather than personal) attempt to present and debate an alternative POV, in which case I will 'butt out', as I've made my case.
"Removing the barrier between this and that is the only solution" {Chogyam Trungpa - "The Lion's Roar"}
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Re: Loosing my way on the path.

Postby disjointed » Sat Oct 05, 2013 1:31 am

Unde, I don't have time to read your long rambling posts.

The forum is not a diary. Please be concise if you want your posts read.
If there is a radical inconsistency between your statements and the position you claim to hold,
you are a sock puppet.
Make as many accounts as you want; people can identify your deception with this test.
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Re: Loosing my way on the path.

Postby futerko » Sat Oct 05, 2013 1:39 am

It would seem that no amount of shame can act as an equivalent for having respect for others or oneself.
we cannot get rid of God because we still believe in grammar - Nietzsche
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Re: Loosing my way on the path.

Postby disjointed » Sat Oct 05, 2013 1:55 am

"Last night, monks, a certain devata in the far extreme of the night, her extreme radiance lighting up the entirety of Jeta's Grove, came to me and, on arrival, bowed down to me and stood to one side. As she was standing there, she said to me, 'These seven qualities, lord, lead to a monk's non-decline. Which seven? Respect for the teacher, respect for the Dhamma, respect for the Sangha, respect for training, respect for concentration, respect for shame, respect for compunction. These seven qualities, lord, lead to a monk's non-decline.'

"That is what that devata said. Having said it, she bowed down to me, circled me three times, and then disappeared right there."

Respecting the Teacher respecting the Dhamma, and with fierce respect for the Sangha, respecting concentration, ardent, and with fierce respect for training, consummate in shame & compunction, deferential, respectful — incapable of decline — one is right in the presence of unbinding.
- Hirima Sutta: A Sense of Shame
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
If there is a radical inconsistency between your statements and the position you claim to hold,
you are a sock puppet.
Make as many accounts as you want; people can identify your deception with this test.
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Re: Loosing my way on the path.

Postby futerko » Sat Oct 05, 2013 2:13 am

and yet you help yourself to other people's food and disrespect members of this sangha.

Surely "respect for shame" does not involve acting shamelessly and then relying on others to point it out to you?
we cannot get rid of God because we still believe in grammar - Nietzsche
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