Is desire the problem in Buddhism or attachment to desire?

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
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ChampionOfWorlds
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Is desire the problem in Buddhism or attachment to desire?

Post by ChampionOfWorlds »

The title pretty much says it, from my perception of the buddhist teachings, it states that desire is the problem but how can this be so? I have good desires, to rid the world of tyranny and expose corrupt bankers, to reveal the truth of the "mystical" energies to humanity so we may all progress, to free humanity of suffering, surely this is good, I know it is. Thankyou. :smile:
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Wayfarer
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Re: Is desire the problem in Buddhism or attachment to desir

Post by Wayfarer »

It's a matter of interpretation.

The way the topic of 'desire' is usually presented is in the context of the Four Noble Truths. I will presume that you're familiar with them. But in that context, 'desire' is given as tṛṣṇā, hankering or thirst. Although it is true that it means 'desire' it also has a sense of being the driving force behind existence itself. It is perhaps like what in some schools of Western philosophy, was thought of as 'will'. But it is, in some way, the energy that drives the whole cycle of birth and death; it is something deeper than simply 'desire' in the personal sense.

As you you say, desire in some ways inevitable but you can act for right reasons, in favour of a good outcome. But you can do that out of 'detachment' or 'disinterestedness'. That quality of character is generally regarded in most spiritual philosophies as the attribute of the wise. The disinterested person does what needs to be done, because that is what the situation calls for, because it is right and just - not simply because he or she wants it. So in that sense, action doesn't have to be driven by desire. It is acting without self-interest.

The Zen master Nishijima-Roshi (recently deceased) also points out that the notion that desire is something that can be totally transcended, is characteristic of what he calls 'the idealist phase' in his presentation of Dogen's philosophy. (see here for details.)
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ChampionOfWorlds
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Re: Is desire the problem in Buddhism or attachment to desir

Post by ChampionOfWorlds »

jeeprs wrote:It's a matter of interpretation.

The way the topic of 'desire' is usually presented is in the context of the Four Noble Truths. I will presume that you're familiar with them. But in that context, 'desire' is given as tṛṣṇā, hankering or thirst. Although it is true that it means 'desire' it also has a sense of being the driving force behind existence itself. It is perhaps like what in some schools of Western philosophy, was thought of as 'will'. But it is, in some way, the energy that drives the whole cycle of birth and death; it is something deeper than simply 'desire' in the personal sense.

As you you say, desire in some ways inevitable but you can act for right reasons, in favour of a good outcome. But you can do that out of 'detachment' or 'disinterestedness'. That quality of character is generally regarded in most spiritual philosophies as the attribute of the wise. The disinterested person does what needs to be done, because that is what the situation calls for, because it is right and just - not simply because he or she wants it. So in that sense, action doesn't have to be driven by desire. It is acting without self-interest.

The Zen master Nishijima-Roshi (recently deceased) also points out that the notion that desire is something that can be totally transcended, is characteristic of what he calls 'the idealist phase' in his presentation of Dogen's philosophy. (see here for details.)
thankyou, I'm a teenager, I'm new to Buddhism. But I think desire is positive, it can strengthen your will and uplift your cause. Of course, I refer to good and right desires of helping fellow humanity.
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garudha
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Re: Is desire the problem in Buddhism or attachment to desir

Post by garudha »

Desire;

Maybe someone of high intelligence thinks "I desire for you to be happy, because that will make me happy".

Sure, that's better than being completely selfish where you hurt others to elevate yourself, but it's still a form of selfishness.

Love, however, is completely selfless. And; Love is the natural state of your very being without any attachments.

Lovers spontaneously burst into laughter due to the paradox they feel.

Best Wishes!
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LastLegend
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Re: Is desire the problem in Buddhism or attachment to desir

Post by LastLegend »

Which one causes suffering?
It’s eye blinking.
Simon E.
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Re: Is desire the problem in Buddhism or attachment to desir

Post by Simon E. »

A desire to rid the world of tyranny and corrupt bankers and all that good stuff will bind you to the wheel just as securely as a desire to be a tyrant or a corrupt banker.

Because both stances are predicated on the lie of dualism.

Both are samsaric...
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Kaccāni
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Re: Is desire the problem in Buddhism or attachment to desir

Post by Kaccāni »

Attachment to desire? I'll rephrase.

What causes suffering. To want, or to want to want. Is now wanting the problem or wanting?

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Re: Is desire the problem in Buddhism or attachment to desir

Post by KathyLauren »

At the conventional day-to-day level of "what should I do today", of course a desire to do good is a good thing. It is the basis for the practices of generosity and morality, two of the Six Perfections.

But take a close look at the desire to free all beings from suffering. What is it that makes a particular event be labelled "suffering" for a particular being? Is it not the desire to be rid of it? If that being did not desire to be rid of the event, it would not be called suffering. It is in this way that desire is the cause of suffering.

That does not alter the fact that wishing to relieve the suffering of others is a good thing. But that desire causes its own unsatisfactoriness: "I will not be happy until all beings are free from suffering." The wish to free all beings from suffering is progress, but it indicates that the destination has not yey been reached.

Om mani padme hum
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LastLegend
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Re: Is desire the problem in Buddhism or attachment to desir

Post by LastLegend »

How can you distinguish between desire and attachment?
It’s eye blinking.
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Re: Is desire the problem in Buddhism or attachment to desir

Post by ovi »

ChampionOfWorlds wrote:I have good desires, to rid the world of tyranny and expose corrupt bankers, to reveal the truth of the "mystical" energies to humanity so we may all progress, to free humanity of suffering, surely this is good, I know it is. Thankyou. :smile:
Yes, it's good. But the motivation can easily degenerate. It must be pure. If it's not, it is a cause of suffering. If you crave for these things, your motivation is no longer pure. There is a lot of greed and there is a lot of tyranny in the world, both causes of great suffering. The only way you can help is by the selfless desire to help. Your inner peace must not depend on the state of worldly things. If it does, it is because of your greed for a better world. You will then be guilty of the same basic non-virtue that you are trying to eliminate and your motivation will no longer be selfless. You need to eliminate aversion, that is fear, ill-will and the like. Fear such as fear of not getting what you want or getting what you don't want. Being motivated by ill-will, instead of the selfless desire of helping others; even if helping others means harming a tyrant or banker (by exposing him), your motivation must not be that of ill-will. Be motivated to follow a path of selflessly helping others instead of craving for an actual result, even if your actions are in the end guided by such a result (such as relieving or liberating others of suffering).
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Is desire the problem in Buddhism or attachment to desir

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

attachment to desire is solidifying it. That is the source of suffering.
Desire by itself is empty of any intrinsic qualities. it is nothing by itself.
If you want something or don't want it, that makes no difference.
If you want a pizza, go eat a pizza.
Just don't think that pizza is the source of perfect happiness.
the essence of attachment to desire is the feeling that if you just keep getting what you desire, you will be happy,
and the result is that you can't let go of that desire.
But if you can't let go of wanting something, that's the problem. That's suffering.
. . .
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
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garudha
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Re: Is desire the problem in Buddhism or attachment to desir

Post by garudha »

PadmaVonSamba wrote:attachment to desire is solidifying it. That is the source of suffering.
Desire by itself is empty of any intrinsic qualities. it is nothing by itself.
If you want something or don't want it, that makes no difference.
If you want a pizza, go eat a pizza.
Just don't think that pizza is the source of perfect happiness.
the essence of attachment to desire is the feeling that if you just keep getting what you desire, you will be happy,
and the result is that you can't let go of that desire.
But if you can't let go of wanting something, that's the problem. That's suffering.
. . .
:good: For desire to exist, the world has to be seen as something other than oneself. Therefore the natural effect of desire perpetuates separateness from Buddha.
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