evolution and buddhism, conflicting or harmonious

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
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tomschwarz
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evolution and buddhism, conflicting or harmonious

Post by tomschwarz »

wayfarer wrote
I used to think that there was a link between evolution and the idea of re-birth, but now I'm not so sure. It seems that Indian religious thinking is open to the notion of evolution, due to the ancient idea that beings can be re-born in various realms, such as being re-born in the animal realm, so when I first started exploring Buddhism, I thought the idea that beings 'evolve towards higher forms of consciousness' was a natural fit with evolution. But I don't think that any more. The way evolution is envisaged by Western science, it is a purely material process, there is no sense of 'higher' or 'lower' - only some species which survive, and others which don't. It really is first and foremost a biological theory, and I now think to try and read a lot more than that into it is a mistake (and a mistake which is very widespread in the West where 'evolution' has become a substitute for 'God' - evolution 'doing' this and 'doing' that.)
my opinion is that evolution and buddhism are quite harmonious.

we believe that to be reborn is a result of fundamental ignorance )))))))), evolution states that the fittest will have more offspring. OK, we agree ))))). ...but, the offspring will suffer. that is the crude harmony of these two theories: simply equate evolution's "fittest" with buddhism's "suffering".

in evolution beings survive because they are very good at taking care of their self-interest. in bhuddism, we have positive progress when have less self-interest. as a buddhist, i accept the workings of evolution, but i am not interested in promoting that kind of self-preservation. it has its role of course, e.g. good thing i was born as a human ))))). but also as a buddhist, i believe that being born in any realm is not the goal. i seek to not be (re) born. that is the ultimate expression of humanity and caring.

one more point about both of these theories, beings do not always beings "evolve towards higher forms of consciousness", sad and true. others?
i dedicate this post to your happiness, the causes of your happiness, the absence of your suffering the causes of the absence of your suffering that we may not have too much attachment nor aversion. SAMAYAMANUPALAYA
narraboth
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Re: evolution and buddhism, conflicting or harmonious

Post by narraboth »

I don't think it's conflicting nor harmonious. They talk about totally different things.
Evolution is simply a fact that: a phenotype which helps a species to reproduce better, got more chance to become dominant/majority in the population, which explains how organisms change themselves to fit enviornmental changes. This logic is just obviously true, even a fundamental Christian can not deny, so how Buddhist will have any conflict on that?

The main problem is always surrounding: what's the origin of lifes, animals, human etc.
For Biologists, there is no evidence showing that any intented forces (God, gods and godness, aliens etc) involved, and it's also not possible to prove that they are not exist, so it's out of scientific discussion.
For Buddhists, besides some texts talking about the origin of human beings (heaven gods came down the earth and ate things on the ground etc.) and the time (many kalpas) which are obviously different from what scientists suggested, the major idea is that Karma is the major driving force of animals/human evolvement.
Karma or say samsara/previous and next life, we call it a 'very hidden' issue. Unlike emptiness/shunyata, which is a logically reachable issue, we can only prove Karma and previous life issue through experience, whilst we don't have the ability yet. For now we can only trust what Buddha said, when Buddha is the only master who delivered the truth of shunyata thus reasonablly is the most trustable being in the world.

But in the end, if we don't take the actual years/kalpas too serious, also we don't take the myth-like description about human origin too seriously, it's possible that Karma theory has no conflict with evolution. Evolution means organisms change to fit the enviornment, and karma can cause enviornmental changes thus push organisms to change, why not?
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Loren
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Re: evolution and buddhism, conflicting or harmonious

Post by Loren »

Nagarjuna was going to turn Gandhasila Mountain into gold to benefit humanity but Manjushri appeared and asked what good it would do and what the result would be. Seems like humanity would have "de-evolved" real quick.

Seems harmonious with the practice of bodhicitta.
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Sherlock
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Re: evolution and buddhism, conflicting or harmonious

Post by Sherlock »

"Evolving to higher consciousness" is not a Buddhist idea. I think some Hindusdo think that, i.e. once you become a human you can't become an animal again, but the Buddhist idea is that you definitely can fall to the lower realms after you squander your human birth. But otherwise it mostly seems like some New Age idea.

Evolution is just conventional truth. It in no way deniea that in the past, humans had been more like devas, without heavy physical bodies like we do today.
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DNS
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Re: evolution and buddhism, conflicting or harmonious

Post by DNS »

Evolution is compatible with Buddhism. They are not the same things but the scientific findings of biological evolution are compatible with Buddhism. In many mainstream religions, it is taught there is a complete separation of humans and animals, no souls in animals and they are basically here to serve humans in some way or another. In Buddhism it is taught that they suffer like the rest of us, have emotions, have some sort of spirit; that is they are spiritual beings who have the potential for rebirth and spiritual growth like the rest of us. In mainstream religions, their scriptures are quite clear of the separation and no amount of apologetics or scriptural gymnastics can make it truly compatible with evolution, although plenty of their clergy have tried. In Buddhism, at least in this instance, no apologetics needed.
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: evolution and buddhism, conflicting or harmonious

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Idk, if the only thing that can ever truly bring us lasting satisfaction is enlightenment/etc...then everyone is' evolving' somehow, in the process of one day becoming complete Buddha..but it goes both directions farther than we can comprehend, with some moving towards the other shore and most journeying to various places on the wheel. Evolution is a small snapshot of a much larger process, viewed that way. So I would say as a general observation of phenomena it's compatible, but not so much as a sort of philosophical statement, where darwinism is seen as some kind of law of the universe.
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