Is optimism bad?

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
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Boomerang
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Is optimism bad?

Post by Boomerang »

O Realizer of the Transitory World. Don’t have,
as objects of your mind,
The eight transitory things of the world:
Namely, material gain and no gain, happiness and unhappiness,
Things nice to hear and not nice to hear, or praise and scorn.
Be indifferent (toward them).


If I've decided that I'm going to live as a lay person, with a career and bills to pay, is it bad for me to be optimistic about achieving success in my worldly endeavors? If I'm going to interact with people daily, is it bad for me to take the optimistic attitude that I am well-liked by my peers? If I have an illness, is it bad for me to be optimistic about recovering?
muni
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Re: Is optimism bad?

Post by muni »

Oh yes, verry bad. :smile:

When our mind is optimistic, our whole world looks positive. When our mind is negative our world looks negative. This we can see by investigation how mind works. Which is Buddhism, I guess, to accomplish how mind/all is?

Grasping/clinging to “other” ( expectations), even in positive way cannot be everlasting. But to be positive for example regarding health is not a bad thing at all.
To be positive is making relaxation easier, reduces the tight mind to be more flexible, open. To be positive is colouring our surrounding as negativity influences the surrounding as well.

One way to be positive is by believing in our potential to attain ( the unattained) our nature and not to believe to be an everlasting inherent slave of the ups ( positive) and downs (negative) of mind. If we only should not so trust thoughts...

I feel we should avoid to discourage each other at any cost, rather encourage each other as much as possible, this is so important. And therefore appreciate/respect all liberating ways of our fellows. This is our own practice, since without all we cannot realize our nature and we remain as crazy as can be.
So yes to optimism, without expectations.
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Dan74
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Re: Is optimism bad?

Post by Dan74 »

Optimism leads to the Hell realms. Now stick that in your optimistic craw!

No seriously, the verse refers to a high level of renunciation. What all Buddhists aim for, no?
tingdzin
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Re: Is optimism bad?

Post by tingdzin »

Be optimistic as a skillful means, but don't get caught in hope and fear, just as muni said. Easy to say, but difficult to do, I know.
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Ayu
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Re: Is optimism bad?

Post by Ayu »

Boomerang wrote:O Realizer of the Transitory World. Don’t have,
as objects of your mind,
The eight transitory things of the world:
Namely, material gain and no gain, happiness and unhappiness,
Things nice to hear and not nice to hear, or praise and scorn.
Be indifferent (toward them).


If I've decided that I'm going to live as a lay person, with a career and bills to pay, is it bad for me to be optimistic about achieving success in my worldly endeavors? If I'm going to interact with people daily, is it bad for me to take the optimistic attitude that I am well-liked by my peers? If I have an illness, is it bad for me to be optimistic about recovering?
That quote is not about optimism. It deals with grasping to worldly affairs.
It doesn't denie success in work, but the urgent longing for success. Everything is done much easier without the longing for gain and the fear of loss. You might put "joy" into that gap, when grasping is missing. Work with joy, without grasping. This is no contradiction to optimism.
Malcolm
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Re: Is optimism bad?

Post by Malcolm »

Boomerang wrote:O Realizer of the Transitory World. Don’t have,
as objects of your mind,
The eight transitory things of the world:
Namely, material gain and no gain, happiness and unhappiness,
Things nice to hear and not nice to hear, or praise and scorn.
Be indifferent (toward them).


If I've decided that I'm going to live as a lay person, with a career and bills to pay, is it bad for me to be optimistic about achieving success in my worldly endeavors? If I'm going to interact with people daily, is it bad for me to take the optimistic attitude that I am well-liked by my peers? If I have an illness, is it bad for me to be optimistic about recovering?
It is not a problem to enjoy your life.
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Techno Yogi
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Re: Is optimism bad?

Post by Techno Yogi »

I think human beings in general and modern human beings in particular have a tendency toward being overly optimistic. This can lead us into all kinds of foolishness, at the both personal ("it won't happen to me!") and the collective ("the economy is fundamentally sound; a rising tide lifts all boats!") levels. Contemporary North American culture in particular likes to filter reality through a smiley face - all part of the "power of positive thinking".
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Grigoris
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Re: Is optimism bad?

Post by Grigoris »

I think that generally an optimistic outlook is not negative, but being optimistic about a future outcome is normally based on hope, and that my friend is a pitfall. Why? Coz if your hope proves true then it may lead to grasping, if it proves false it may lead to aversion.

Of course one can be realistically optimistic about an outcome, but even this holds some grains of hope and so...
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
AlexMcLeod
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Re: Is optimism bad?

Post by AlexMcLeod »

It is certainly possible to be optimistic and yet detached from the outcome. I would even say that this is an ideal state for training.
Relax! Smile From The Heart!
There is a difference between the Mundane and the Transcendental. If you purposefully confuse them, I will ignore you, you nihilist.
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Dundee
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Re: Is optimism bad?

Post by Dundee »

Optimism is really just to put energy and attention to a good outcome but it does not have to mean to be unrealistic or over attached. It seems like some of us put those two ideas to optimism as a connotation but that is not necessarily accurate.
SeeLion
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Re: Is optimism bad?

Post by SeeLion »

If I've decided that I'm going to live as a lay person, with a career and bills to pay, is it bad for me to be optimistic about achieving success in my worldly endeavors?
To me, the questions seem to be about desire, not optimism. Also, the quote is about desire versus equanimity.

Yes, desire is problematic.
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Re: Is optimism bad?

Post by MindTheGap »

Don't be optimistic or pessimistic. Be where you are and open your heart to it. Look beyond desire for or fear of an outcome. Look to the root of what you feel. If you feel happy, in your heart and mind give it away to those who need it. If you feel sad, have compassion for those who share it. If you're bored, try needlepoint.

Nah. Just say some mantras. Or read a book.

Take a look, it's in a book...

:jumping: doing the happy dance :jumping:

(Now, think: may all beings dance with silly happiness)
And now, as long as space endures, As long as there are beings to be found,
May I continue, likewise, to remain, To drive away the sorrows of the world.

- Shantideva: Bodhicharyavatara

In this world there is no man, there is no woman. There is no person, self or consciousness.
Man and woman are merely imputed and have no essence. Thus, the minds of worldly beings are mistaken.

- Wisdom Moon: now known as the Bodhisattva Tara

When there arises a gap in the mind...

Image
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Grigoris
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Re: Is optimism bad?

Post by Grigoris »

AlexMcLeod wrote:It is certainly possible to be optimistic and yet detached from the outcome. I would even say that this is an ideal state for training.
I agree, now let's see if you can pull it off! :)
Dundee wrote:Optimism is really just to put energy and attention to a good outcome but it does not have to mean to be unrealistic or over attached. It seems like some of us put those two ideas to optimism as a connotation but that is not necessarily accurate.
I did say "I think", "normally" and "may", did you miss these parts of the post.

Again though, even in the absence of the "may" and "normally" there is no doubt that optimism is based on hope, and hope and fear are major obstacles to realisation.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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Ayu
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Re: Is optimism bad?

Post by Ayu »

I wouldn't necessarily see "hope" as the foundation of all kinds of optimism.
The reason for optimism could be "positive motivation" and "confidence" also. Both are the fuel to start the motor and to keep it going. Bodhicitta is positive motivation, inspiration and confidence, too. From this ancle of view Bodhicitta could be called a certain kind of optimism.

MindTheGap wrote:Don't be optimistic or pessimistic...
But this is certainly true.
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seeker242
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Re: Is optimism bad?

Post by seeker242 »

I don't see how optimism itself can be bad, unless you take it to irrational extremes.
One should not kill any living being, nor cause it to be killed, nor should one incite any other to kill. Do never injure any being, whether strong or weak, in this entire universe!
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