Jonang photos

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Jonang photos

Postby Luke » Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:13 am

If anyone comes across any photos of Jonang lamas, temples, art, etc., you could post them in this thread.

I found some photos of Jonang monks and other things in Tibet here:

http://jonang.dotphoto.com/CPListAlbums.asp

I find it interesting that the Jonangpa's hats basically look like Gelug hats. I was kind of hoping that they'd have their own type of hat, but oh well.
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Re: Jonang photos

Postby Luke » Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:17 am

Here is a big photo of the Jonang lineage tree:

http://jonangfoundation.org/jonang-line ... =_original
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Re: Jonang photos

Postby Tashi Nyima » Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:17 pm

om svasti

In the 17th century, the Gelukpas forcibly annexed Jonang monasteries, the 5th Dalai Lama declared that the (Geluk) Kalkha Dampa of Mongolia was the 'reincarnation' of Jetsun Taranatha, and the study of the Omniscient Dolpopa's teachings was suppressed.

The use of the yellow hat among those Jonangpas who accepted Geluk domination stems from those unfortunate events. However, Jonangpas who follow the teachings of the Omniscient Dolpopa (known as New Jonangpas) still wear the red hat exclusively.

You can read more about the New Jonangpas at http://greatmiddleway.wordpress.com/

mangalam
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Re: Jonang photos

Postby conebeckham » Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:23 pm

Those yellow hats are worn by Kagyupas too, at certain times.....they're not really a distinguishing feature of the Geluk lineage. They do distinguish monks, though...
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Re: Jonang photos

Postby Tashi Nyima » Sun Nov 07, 2010 2:52 pm

Dear Friend,

om svasti

True. The yellow hat is not a distinguishing characteristic of the Gelukpas, as other lineages also wear them.

The absence of the yellow hat, however, is a distinguishing characteristic of those Jonangpas who have remained faithful to the Great Middle Way (dbu ma chenpo) of Kunchen Dolpopa since the 17th century, as is the respectful honoring of the Kalkha Dampa as a high Geluk lama, but not as the head of the Jonangpa.
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Re: Jonang photos

Postby Luke » Sun Nov 07, 2010 6:42 pm

Tashi Nyima wrote:The use of the yellow hat among those Jonangpas who accepted Geluk domination stems from those unfortunate events. However, Jonangpas who follow the teachings of the Omniscient Dolpopa (known as New Jonangpas) still wear the red hat exclusively.

Well, perhaps I misspoke. The Jonang rinpoche I saw wore a red hat, but is was the same shape as the one Tsongkhapa wore.
Image

Tashi Nyima wrote:You can read more about the New Jonangpas at http://greatmiddleway.wordpress.com/

Why do you place such a heavy emphasis on "New"? Is it really necessary? Is there anything wrong with the ancient Jonang lamas?

I guess issues surrounding the NKT make my radar go up when I hear another group start to call itself the "new" version of another tradition. As long as you preserve and pass on the teachings of the Jonang lineage, does anything else really matter?
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Re: Jonang photos

Postby Tashi Nyima » Mon Nov 08, 2010 4:48 am

Why do you place such a heavy emphasis on "New"? Is it really necessary? Is there anything wrong with the ancient Jonang lamas?

I guess issues surrounding the NKT make my radar go up when I hear another group start to call itself the "new" version of another tradition. As long as you preserve and pass on the teachings of the Jonang lineage, does anything else really matter?


We cultivate love, respect, and admiration for all lamas of every lineage, including --of course-- those Jonangpas who, out of necessity or through coercion, have assimilated into the Gelukpa fold. We also extend that respect and brotherly affection to the Venerable Geshe Kelsang Gyatso and his followers, as we do to all Sons and Daughters of the Victor, and indeed, to all sentient beings.

The use of the term 'New' was introduced in deference to the historical authority of the Kalkha Dampa over the 'old' Jonangpas since the 17th century, and not to signify any deviation or innovation on our part. On the contrary, New Jonangpas preserve the teachings and practices of Kunchen Dolpopa most assiduously.

However, since the Jonangpa lamas that preside over the historical monasteries associated with the lineage have accepted subordination to a leadership that was externally and artificially imposed through force of arms (there had never been one supreme head of the Jonangpa before that time), it became necessary for us to adopt some means of differentiation.

Other options (such as calling ourselves "True" or "Pure" Jonangpas, or referring to the followers of the Kalkha Dampa as "Subordinated" or "Mixed" Jonangpas) seemed both inaccurate and offensive, and thus we have settled on the not-altogether-felicitous 'New Jonangpa' for our humble Sangha. Perhaps, since we have had to start over without institutional support of any kind, it is not too misleading to call ourselves 'New'.

We trust that, as the teachings of the Omniscient Dolpopa once again become freely available in Tibet and elsewhere, the distinction will not be necessary in the near future. We look forward to the time when 'old' and 'new' Jonangpas will together study, preserve, practice, and propagate the Dharma of Definitive Meaning, the krta yuga suddha dharma, taking our rightful place beside our Nyingma, Sakya, Kagyu, Geluk, and Bon brothers and sisters in the Great Assembly of the followers of Buddha Shakyamuni of all peoples and lineages.
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Re: Jonang photos

Postby Luke » Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:04 pm

Tashi Nyima wrote:However, since the Jonangpa lamas that preside over the historical monasteries associated with the lineage have accepted subordination to a leadership that was externally and artificially imposed through force of arms (there had never been one supreme head of the Jonangpa before that time), it became necessary for us to adopt some means of differentiation.

Hmm... does this mean that you resent the current Dalai Lama in some way? From everything I've seen, His Holiness has shown a great deal of support for the Jonangpa.
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Re: Jonang photos

Postby Tashi Nyima » Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:53 am

Dear Friend

om svasti

On the contrary, we hold His Holiness the Dalai Lama in the highest esteem. The present Dalai Lama has composed a prayer for the flourishing of the Great Middle Way (dbu ma chenpo) of Jonang, has gifted a monastery in India to the Kalkha Dampa, and has vowed that his successors will never again exercise temporal power over Tibet.

By the instruction of my Root Teacher, i received Bodhisattva Vows from His Holiness, and as is the custom of all Jonangpas, we offer a Long Life Puja for him every year on Losar.

Resentment is not a quality that produces either merit or wisdom.
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Re: Jonang photos

Postby Pema Rigdzin » Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:01 am

Luke wrote:Well, perhaps I misspoke. The Jonang rinpoche I saw wore a red hat, but is was the same shape as the one Tsongkhapa wore.
Image

This is a pandita hat and is worn by monastic lamas in all Tibetan traditions. Gelugpas tend to wear yellow ones and other traditions, particularly Nyingmapas and Kagyupas, wear red ones. As far as the significance of the colors, I remember Namdrol from e-sangha talking about it there at one point. He said the yellow color represented the enriching quality and the red the powerful quality. He said that the decision to go with one color or the other had nothing to do with representing a lineage and everything to do with circumstances and which aspect needs to be called on at a given time, such as power during the time when the Dharma was first being established in Tibet, and the enriching aspect once it had been established and they were endeavoring to make it flourish.
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Re: Jonang photos

Postby conebeckham » Wed Nov 10, 2010 12:48 am

Yellow is identified, in Tibetan traditions, with monastic discipline. In all lineages in Tibet, as far as I know, only ordained sangha would/should wear the yellow zen, and in some lineages, only on special occasions--especially those occasions where vinaya vows were being restored/refreshed.
Red or maroon was the "cheapest" color in the Tibetan region, I understand, and therefore the main robes were maroon.

The Indian Panditas wore red Pandita hats. My understanding is that Tsong Khapa chose to wear a yellow Pandita hat due to his concerns regarding the degeneration of the vinaya during his time.

The yellow "banana hat," as I've heard them called, is worn by ordained sangha during special occasions--and as far as I know, all lineages wear these--but only ordained members may do so.
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Re: Jonang photos

Postby Pema Rigdzin » Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:59 pm

conebeckham wrote:The Indian Panditas wore red Pandita hats. My understanding is that Tsong Khapa chose to wear a yellow Pandita hat due to his concerns regarding the degeneration of the vinaya during his time.

Yes, now that you mention this actually, this said sounds closer to what I remember Namdrol saying than my paraphrasing above does.

conebeckham wrote:The yellow "banana hat," as I've heard them called, is worn by ordained sangha during special occasions--and as far as I know, all lineages wear these--but only ordained members may do so.

Seems like Nyingmapas usually tend to wear red ones, though not always. I've heard some theorize that these were actually inspired by those brush-like helmets worn by the army of Alexander the Great. Same with the Tibetan style of ritual music.
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