initiations clean out

[????]

During the initiation given from master to follower,something is happening right?
Initiation is not only verbal permission am I right?
Interaction also occurs in what we call colloquially "energetic body", chakras etc
So,if I received initiation,what should I do to be ...purify,clean out?
I do not want to be connected to anyone and make any practice which I received initiation.

[Grigoris]

During the initiation given from master to follower,something is happening right?
Initiation is not only verbal permission am I right?
Interaction also occurs in what we call colloquially "energetic body", chakras etc
So,if I received initiation,what should I do to be ...purify,clean out?
I do not want to be connected to anyone and make any practice which I received initiation.

Clean out what? Your last sentence is rather confusing.

[????]

Clean out what?

I dont know what because I dont know what is the difference before and after the initiation.
if there is a change - I want to return to the state before the initiation
if there is no difference before and after the initiation - then... there is nothing to talk about

[Paul]

if there is a change - I want to return to the state before the initiation

Not possible. What initiation(s) have you taken?

[Grigoris]

Is it possible for you to talk to the teacher that gave the initiation?

[pemachophel]

Oh dear.

[????]

What initiation(s) have you taken?

I do not remember, there was a lot
I had written down but I deleted notes
... I remember Phowa and puja, something relating to the Nagas
Chod ... approximately twenty different

Is it possible for you to talk to the teacher that gave the initiation?

it is impossible

[lorem]

I think you just always consider that person your teacher but you just don't practice anymore. The people who would know would be some of the Gelukpa lamas whose teachers left.

[Paul]

Who was the teacher?

[Grigoris]

It doesn't really matter who the teacher was or what the initiations were, these are irrelevant details.

Are you sure they were initiations (wang), and not just ritual readings (lung)?

The best thing to do, either way, is maintain a neutral attitude towards the teacher that gave the initiations and, in the case that there were practice samaya, try (at least) to maintain a mind of love and compassion for all beings, even if you don't do the practices.

[Schrödinger’s Yidam]

The best thing to do, either way, is maintain a neutral attitude towards the teacher that gave the initiations and, in the case that there were practice samaya, try (at least) to maintain a mind of love and compassion for all beings, even if you don't do the practices.

If somebody gives you a harmonica as a birthday present you don't have to learn to play it, but it was still a nice thing for them to do and there's nothing wrong with having a harmonica. If someone gives you an initiation you don't have to learn the practice, but it was still a nice thing for them to do and there's nothing wrong with having an initiation. In either case you can just put it out of your mind and continue on with your life if that's what you feel like.

[????]

Are you sure they were initiations (wang), and not just ritual readings (lung)?

I dont know,lung of course ,Im sure it was lung ,but wang...maybe also.

mind of love and compassion for all beings

its hard when your "anger" grow up...I wrote anger but this is only mental shortcut
"Anger" - too many negative emotions to describe them all,I cant do this and that is why Im anger
Be perfectly candid,I dont care about all beings no more,even myself (Im also being).
Everything was good, increasingly,and one day suddenly all it has become collapsed ( I hate it )

...ok, I'm out,it makes no sense to waste our time

[Grigoris]

I dont know,lung of course ,Im sure it was lung ,but wang...maybe also.

It doesn't really matter the advice is the same.

Everything was good, increasingly,and one day suddenly all it has become collapsed ( I hate it )

...ok, I'm out,it makes no sense to waste our time

What collapsed? Your ability to love? What caused it to collapse?

[????]

What collapsed? Your ability to love?

Im not sure did I lost my ability to love
because Im not sure I ever had it

I lost the ability to everything (understanding,checking,discovering,solicitude )
or rather an interest.

All my passions irritate me,I stopped paying attention to the needs or suffering of others
Not my fault - not my business
Compassion, love ... something like that is in me, but I ignore it

What caused it to collapse?

I do not know...and it made me pissed off

I had to relieve tension somehow,wreak one's anger
There was no one who I could hit for what happened because no one did anything to me
so I threw books into swamp and I feel little better for a short time
Alleviation,reprieve due to destruction

Maybe it is because of purification of karma ,shaman said all our contaminations crawl out after ritual.
Contaminations from all past lives...anyway,I have no regrets, I do not care,it was good
Only what I want now is to be free from all doctrines,gurus etc

[Schrödinger’s Yidam]

What collapsed? Your ability to love?

Im not sure did I lost my ability to love
because Im not sure I ever had it

I lost the ability to everything (understanding,checking,discovering,solicitude )
or rather an interest.

All my passions irritate me,I stopped paying attention to the needs or suffering of others
Not my fault - not my business
Compassion, love ... something like that is in me, but I ignore it

What caused it to collapse?

I do not know...and it made me pissed off

I had to relieve tension somehow,wreak one's anger
There was no one who I could hit for what happened because no one did anything to me
so I threw books into swamp and I feel little better for a short time
Alleviation,reprieve due to destruction

Maybe it is because of purification of karma ,shaman said all our contaminations crawl out after ritual.
Contaminations from all past lives...anyway,I have no regrets, I do not care,it was good
Only what I want now is to be free from all doctrines,gurus etc

Sounds pretty normal to me. What'd you think, you'd be Mr. Perfect after attending a ritual? You've got karmic obstacles. Welcome to the club!

[Grigoris]

Maybe it is because of purification of karma ,shaman said all our contaminations crawl out after ritual.
Contaminations from all past lives...anyway,I have no regrets, I do not care,it was good
Only what I want now is to be free from all doctrines,gurus etc

I don't know what sort of initiation you received, I mean now you are talking about shamans so... but Vajrayana initiation merely introduces you to your own enlightened nature via the "medium" of the deity (as an expression of your own enlightened nature). Nothing is given and nothing is taken. If anything your attention is merely drawn towards something that was always there but you never took the time to notice. Now that, as I said, is what happens in the Vajrayana, I don't know what happens (and how) in shamanic traditions.

[Schrödinger’s Yidam]

Deledted by smcj

[????]

This is misunderstanding,initiations have nothing to do with the shaman
I have not received initiations from shaman,initiations and shaman are two different things.

Initiations I received from Dzogchen teacher, purification of karma made for me shaman
First I received initiations, I make practices according to the instructions from master
then turned with asking to the shaman.

Nothing is given and nothing is taken.

Good

[Grigoris]

phpBB [video]

[lorem]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pGb7xHJrAQ

That was good. Will we ever live in a tolerant world?

EDIT

My advice would be to talk to Malcolm.