Dzogchen and Buddhism
Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism
Cone,
Quite the contrary. I go even further than you. Buddhism is just a necessary shell for many which reappears in different forms by different Buddhas. It is just a finger pointing and even it's target moon is illusory. 1) We should respect the condition of many non buddhists but also buddhists. Not just one side. 2) My position is not what you think. I go even further, even Dzogchen/Essence Mahamudra are just shells too. Shells true, yet the best things and concepts and medtitations and path or anything fathomable in existence anywhere, specially in 13 lucky world systems in our large sector and not reappearing in all eras in future either as in the past.
My mantra here has been ChNNR LIKE ALL RINPOCHES WELCOMES ALL REGARDLESS INTO HIS TEACHINGS. Then what happens is different for each person. Sure you can get DI realization first time but if you want to progress you NEED MINMUM ONGOING SHORT ATI GURU YOGA and for maintanance and progression to advanced levels even more practice. Truth be told, my position is much more radical than what yours is. Like I said, the best path after recieving DI or mahamudra pointing out and starting practices like all nirmanakayas of past, is actually our 24/7 daily lives moment to moment as well as certain noble but not necessarily "Buddhist" disciplines. I agree with you and even go further so quite the contrary. But everything in it's place and lets respect all sides' conditions not just one side at the expense of others. Unlike you guys I gave up my all my paraphernalia and most do not know what I believe or practice.
All the best.
Quite the contrary. I go even further than you. Buddhism is just a necessary shell for many which reappears in different forms by different Buddhas. It is just a finger pointing and even it's target moon is illusory. 1) We should respect the condition of many non buddhists but also buddhists. Not just one side. 2) My position is not what you think. I go even further, even Dzogchen/Essence Mahamudra are just shells too. Shells true, yet the best things and concepts and medtitations and path or anything fathomable in existence anywhere, specially in 13 lucky world systems in our large sector and not reappearing in all eras in future either as in the past.
My mantra here has been ChNNR LIKE ALL RINPOCHES WELCOMES ALL REGARDLESS INTO HIS TEACHINGS. Then what happens is different for each person. Sure you can get DI realization first time but if you want to progress you NEED MINMUM ONGOING SHORT ATI GURU YOGA and for maintanance and progression to advanced levels even more practice. Truth be told, my position is much more radical than what yours is. Like I said, the best path after recieving DI or mahamudra pointing out and starting practices like all nirmanakayas of past, is actually our 24/7 daily lives moment to moment as well as certain noble but not necessarily "Buddhist" disciplines. I agree with you and even go further so quite the contrary. But everything in it's place and lets respect all sides' conditions not just one side at the expense of others. Unlike you guys I gave up my all my paraphernalia and most do not know what I believe or practice.
All the best.
Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes
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Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism
Well, Mr. Smarty-Pants, you are wrong once again! This is not bickering, not at all, though it may appear that way to the unlettered. It will be recognized in years to come as the First Internet Council of the Wise, where the future direction of Buddhadharma was decided and the tulku system abolished.Fa Dao wrote:WOW!! this has been going on now for quite some time. Some people are really getting fired up. Not my place to take a side or say who is right or wrong. But at some point dont we all have to ask ourselves "is all of this bickering really helping anyone?" (and it truly has turned into bickering) Maybe its time to bury the hatchet and just move on to more productive discussions? Just a thought.....
"All the sublime teachings, so profound--to throw away one and then grab yet another will not bear even a single fruit. Persevere, therefore, in simply one."
--Dudjom Rinpoche, "Nectar for the Hearts of Fortunate Disciples. Song No. 8"
--Dudjom Rinpoche, "Nectar for the Hearts of Fortunate Disciples. Song No. 8"
Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism
Oh hell bob, now you've gone and spoilt everthang. Iffen we cain't bicker, what else is we gonna do in our dilbert cubes???Silent Bob wrote:Well, Mr. Smarty-Pants, you are wrong once again! This is not bickering, not at all, though it may appear that way to the unlettered. It will be recognized in years to come as the First Internet Council of the Wise, where the future direction of Buddhadharma was decided and the tulku system abolished.Fa Dao wrote:WOW!! this has been going on now for quite some time. Some people are really getting fired up. Not my place to take a side or say who is right or wrong. But at some point dont we all have to ask ourselves "is all of this bickering really helping anyone?" (and it truly has turned into bickering) Maybe its time to bury the hatchet and just move on to more productive discussions? Just a thought.....
- greentreee
- Posts: 72
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- Location: in the woods in northern ontario
Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism
well, sir wise ass, in the name of all things bob, if your last sentense were true, we would be in the fnord.Silent Bob wrote:Well, Mr. Smarty-Pants, you are wrong once again! This is not bickering, not at all, though it may appear that way to the unlettered. It will be recognized in years to come as the First Internet Council of the Wise, where the future direction of Buddhadharma was decided and the tulku system abolished.Fa Dao wrote:WOW!! this has been going on now for quite some time. Some people are really getting fired up. Not my place to take a side or say who is right or wrong. But at some point dont we all have to ask ourselves "is all of this bickering really helping anyone?" (and it truly has turned into bickering) Maybe its time to bury the hatchet and just move on to more productive discussions? Just a thought.....
scratching thick hair'd head,
"if air can be conditioned,
like where's the shampoo?"
"greentreee"
"if air can be conditioned,
like where's the shampoo?"
"greentreee"
Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism
Please, let's keep the bickering constructive, because otherwise the moderators are gonna shut this shop down and all of this is far too entertaining for that to happen!
Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism
asunthatneversets wrote:Please, let's keep the bickering constructive, because otherwise the moderators are gonna shut this shop down....
This topic is about to be locked for 3 incalculable eons.
- How foolish you are,
grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
- Vasubandhu
- conebeckham
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- Location: Bay Area, CA, USA
Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism
Okay, then.username wrote: Unlike you guys I gave up my all my paraphernalia and most do not know what I believe or practice.
But I gave up my paraphernalia years ago...after my mom found my bong stashed away in the attic.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
- greentreee
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 12:43 am
- Location: in the woods in northern ontario
Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism
Mr. G wrote:asunthatneversets wrote:Please, let's keep the bickering constructive, because otherwise the moderators are gonna shut this shop down....
This topic is about to be locked for 3 incalculable eons.
not if i can help it! you can't hate puppy pictures!!
it's a dog eat dog world no?
scratching thick hair'd head,
"if air can be conditioned,
like where's the shampoo?"
"greentreee"
"if air can be conditioned,
like where's the shampoo?"
"greentreee"
-
- Posts: 269
- Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:12 am
Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism
You must not know who you're talking to... Furthermore, you should never use the word fnord in a public forum!greentreee wrote:well, sir wise ass, in the name of all things bob, if your last sentense were true, we would be in the fnord.Silent Bob wrote:Well, Mr. Smarty-Pants, you are wrong once again! This is not bickering, not at all, though it may appear that way to the unlettered. It will be recognized in years to come as the First Internet Council of the Wise, where the future direction of Buddhadharma was decided and the tulku system abolished.Fa Dao wrote:WOW!! this has been going on now for quite some time. Some people are really getting fired up. Not my place to take a side or say who is right or wrong. But at some point dont we all have to ask ourselves "is all of this bickering really helping anyone?" (and it truly has turned into bickering) Maybe its time to bury the hatchet and just move on to more productive discussions? Just a thought.....
"All the sublime teachings, so profound--to throw away one and then grab yet another will not bear even a single fruit. Persevere, therefore, in simply one."
--Dudjom Rinpoche, "Nectar for the Hearts of Fortunate Disciples. Song No. 8"
--Dudjom Rinpoche, "Nectar for the Hearts of Fortunate Disciples. Song No. 8"
- greentreee
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 12:43 am
- Location: in the woods in northern ontario
Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism
i never professed to know you. i am neither in discord nor not in discord with fnord, i honestly cannot play an accordian or the discordian. all i see are pixels and i try to read between them.Silent Bob wrote:
You must not know who you're talking to... Furthermore, you should never use the word fnord in a public forum!
as i recall once reading from a teacher of Buddhism, "Going too far can be worse than not going far enough."
take it easy!
scratching thick hair'd head,
"if air can be conditioned,
like where's the shampoo?"
"greentreee"
"if air can be conditioned,
like where's the shampoo?"
"greentreee"
- Rinchen Dorje
- Posts: 1057
- Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 5:42 pm
Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism
yes yes...I think perhaps you two missed your calling...you should give up being practitioners and take your show on the road...The Malcolm and Bob Comedy Hour!! Just think of it, you two could be the next Laurel and Hardy, the next Abbot and Costello, the next Penn and Teller!!!
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche
Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism
this is a good thought, it's like ... "Not going far enough can be worse than going too far"greentreee wrote: as i recall once reading from a teacher of Buddhism, "Going too far can be worse than not going far enough."
take it easy!
Sönam
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -
Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism
BOLLYWOOD. There the movie producer is seen.
“We are each living in our own soap opera. We do not see things as they really are. We see only our interpretations. This is because our minds are always so busy...But when the mind calms down, it becomes clear. This mental clarity enables us to see things as they really are, instead of projecting our commentary on everything.” Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bg9jOYnEUA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bg9jOYnEUA
Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism
Why on earth would that mean having "to give up their practice ? "Fa Dao wrote:yes yes...I think perhaps you two missed your calling...you should give up being practitioners and take your show on the road...The Malcolm and Bob Comedy Hour!! Just think of it, you two could be the next Laurel and Hardy, the next Abbot and Costello, the next Penn and Teller!!!
The Hahayana is no more a barrier than any other yana per se.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism
Topic locked and under review.
Regards,
Regards,